Why 2 holes in the front bumper M 38?

DocUwe

What is the reason of the 2 holes in the M 38 front bumper (right side)?

Regards Uwe

wesk · Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:37 am Post subject:

It's a leftover form the CJ3A production it was based on. The holes are for the old "T" style license plate bracket.

_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

DocUwe · Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:49 pm Post subject:

Thank you very much! Now I know it Smile

The next "file X"-question:
what is the use of the hole in the M 38-rim?

Regards Uwe Cool

Ryan_Miller · Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:27 pm Post subject:

Manufacter's mark to easily identify the military rims from the civilian rims.
_________________
Ryan Miller
MVPA # 22010

wesk · Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:33 pm Post subject:

It has not been determined beyond any reasonable doubt yet. The 1/8" hole is found on the 16 x 4.5" military wheel with the safety bead and without for the later replacement wheel. It is also found on the civilian Willys Pickup 16x5" wheel. The best explanation to date was it helped ID the wheel on the assembly line. But this brings into question the pickup wheel on the same line.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

whydahdvr · Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:43 am Post subject:

Wes, et al, in regards to the pick-up wheel, is it possible that Willy's made a decision during production to use the combat/military wheel on a civilian pick-up due to better durability and construction? I'm thinking of past discussions regarding the seat covers and that sometimes production-line decisions and changes weren't well documented at a corporate level. Just a thought.
-Josh

wesk · Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:10 am Post subject:

Note that the rim width of the military wheel is 4.5" and the pickup wheel is 5.0". The two entirely seperate parts. Also the pickup wheel came first.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

whydahdvr · Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:02 am Post subject:

Got it. So much for that theory! Smile

DocUwe · Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:37 am Post subject:

Thank you all! Now I can live further Cool

Regards Uwe
_________________
43 MB, 52 M38, 55 Bantam licensed trailer, 08 Commander Hemi, JK Rubi

Jim · Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:37 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the info on the two holes!! I know the
big hole in the center was for a hand crank, but
what about the other holes on the left side?

Jim in Darkest Arkansas

wesk · Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:35 pm Post subject:

_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

TomM · Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:49 am Post subject: early vs late bumper

Early M38 vs late M38 bumper:
We discussed this earlier but never had a conclusion.

Hole #5
Early M38 bumper - pre bumper mounted shackle bracket = 11/32"
Late M38 bumper with shackle mount = 5/8"

Has this been confirmed?

Tom

wesk · Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:01 am Post subject:

We need a good sampling of Sep 1950 thru about April 1951 M38 original front bumpers to be sure. But all the lift shackle brackets used 1/2x20 bolts so I don't see why there would be a different hole size for early vs late.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

TomM · Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:15 am Post subject: bumpers

The reasoning was that with the early shackle bracket being set back from the bumper there may not have been a 5/8 hole for a 1/2" bolt. A smaller bolt would have been accomodated instead.

The sampling of early bumpers would be needed but until then take a look at this picture:
TM9-1804A
June 1951
Page 19
Figure 9

That single bolt on the bumper is not the same as the 1/2" bolt going through the shackle bracket.

Tom

wesk · Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:42 am Post subject:

I'm not always this confused. Now I see the light. Yes the original holes would have been for the six 3/8" bolts originally used to attach the bumper to the frame but when the change in front lifting shackles occurred my best guess is the factory drawing was amended to show the larger upper hole but the bumper part number was not changed nor was the change on the 3/8" bolts from 6 each to 4 each made in neither the 51 or 55 ORD 9. You'll note the 55 ORD 9 shows a supersedure to the 2nd series M38A1 bumper that was introduced to the A1 late 52 or early 53. This supersedure does not address the original M38 bumper vs shackle brackets but would have accomadated the late bracket 1/2" top bolt..
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php


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