Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:21 am Post subject: M38 bell housing interchangeability?
I have know all along my M38 has a CJ block in it. Apparently with the CJ engine, came the CJ bell housing. I finally have lined up a Ramsey 50 winch for my Jeep, but it cant work without the M38 bellhousing which has the mounting point for the pillow block. The CJ engine is an early block with the fourn bellhousing mounting holes. I have a "waterproof" style M38, M38A1 bellhousing.
Finally to my question: Can I use the later B/H on the early block just using the four mounting points? Or is this going to get complicated with ring gears, starters or other pitfalls?
Thanks in advance. _________________ '52 Dodge M37, '42 GPW, '48 FrankenJeep CJ2A/M38, '50 CJV-35(U), '51 M38, '42 WC-57 Command Car, '44 WC-51 Weapons , (2) M1941 Sperry 60" Anti-Aircraft Searchlights, John Deere M-gator, '44 White M3A1 Scout Car
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 2059 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:28 pm Post subject:
How many teeth on your flywheel?
12V electrical system?
If you own a copy of the M38 Reference Guide it has some very good information with photos and illustrations that describe which combinations of various bell-housings, rear engine plates, flywheels, and starters go together (and which don't). _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Yes, i have the guide. Very helpful. but still trying to figure out what will work. This weekend I will pull the starter to see if what I have requires the bushing hole in the B/H or not. If it doesn't, looks like things could work... _________________ '52 Dodge M37, '42 GPW, '48 FrankenJeep CJ2A/M38, '50 CJV-35(U), '51 M38, '42 WC-57 Command Car, '44 WC-51 Weapons , (2) M1941 Sperry 60" Anti-Aircraft Searchlights, John Deere M-gator, '44 White M3A1 Scout Car
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 2059 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:00 pm Post subject:
I switched my 12V M38 motor over from a CJ setup (97-tooth flywheel, open nose 12V starter (pinion bushing in the bell housing) to the late M38 setup.
It required the late waterproof M38 bell-housing, the matching rear engine plate, the 129-tooth flywheel, and a close-nosed 12V starter (pinion bushing in the nose of the starter).
Parts were fairly easy to source and reasonably priced except for the 12v starter.
Good luck! _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 2059 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:33 pm Post subject:
I'm not exactly sure of the bell-housing I took off, but the casting number on it is 801628 and it has the threaded hole on the side for the PTO hanger.
Could be early M38 bell. It has the pinion bushing and takes the open-nose starter.
Thanks Ron. Seems between what you have and what I have things could work. Then finally the elusive winch can be installed! I;ll know more this weekend. _________________ '52 Dodge M37, '42 GPW, '48 FrankenJeep CJ2A/M38, '50 CJV-35(U), '51 M38, '42 WC-57 Command Car, '44 WC-51 Weapons , (2) M1941 Sperry 60" Anti-Aircraft Searchlights, John Deere M-gator, '44 White M3A1 Scout Car
It would help if you posted the tooth count on your flywheel, weather stock 24 volt or 12 Volt for your starter and which PTO will you be using? _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
It was my plan to pull the starter and get those bits of data this weekend. I can say it is a 12V starter.
The PTO is the correct short one for the M38 application. Thats what brought this whole bell housing swap out up. _________________ '52 Dodge M37, '42 GPW, '48 FrankenJeep CJ2A/M38, '50 CJV-35(U), '51 M38, '42 WC-57 Command Car, '44 WC-51 Weapons , (2) M1941 Sperry 60" Anti-Aircraft Searchlights, John Deere M-gator, '44 White M3A1 Scout Car
The easiest ID on bells are the two starter mounting bolt sizes. 3/8" dia bolts = early and 1/2" dia bolts equal late.
Is there not a data plate on the 12V starter? The part number is all we need.
One thing you should keep in mind when switching bells early (has timing window next to starter & timing marks on flywheel) and late has no timing window necessitating timing marks on the front bottom pulley & cover.
Once you remove the starter you can easily determine which ring gear tooth count you have by measuring the width of the tooth ring.
Bells are distinquished from each other as shown below:
Early
Late
Early vs late starter mounting _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Thank you Wes. I have been studying these in your photo gallery. the inspection plate seems the quickest way to determine early or late? 2 bolt early, 6 bolts late. The one I have laying around is definately late, but the casting number doesnt match anything in the guide book.
Mark _________________ '52 Dodge M37, '42 GPW, '48 FrankenJeep CJ2A/M38, '50 CJV-35(U), '51 M38, '42 WC-57 Command Car, '44 WC-51 Weapons , (2) M1941 Sperry 60" Anti-Aircraft Searchlights, John Deere M-gator, '44 White M3A1 Scout Car
Ron, I decided I just didn't have the drive to change it out. So I let the winch go and am driving my Jeep instead. _________________ '52 Dodge M37, '42 GPW, '48 FrankenJeep CJ2A/M38, '50 CJV-35(U), '51 M38, '42 WC-57 Command Car, '44 WC-51 Weapons , (2) M1941 Sperry 60" Anti-Aircraft Searchlights, John Deere M-gator, '44 White M3A1 Scout Car
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 2059 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Mon May 02, 2022 6:00 pm Post subject:
Always a good choice. Thanks for the update!
Even if I could find a winch, and as much as I'd like to put one on mine, for me it's too hard to justify the crazy prices they demand.
Same for a decent replica M1919A4 and mount. $3,000+. Really?
So I settled for a wire cutter on the front bumper for my bling. Total cost about $75 and a six-pack for the welding. _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
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