Starter for a sore foot?

oilleaker1 · Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:08 am Post subject: Starter for a sore foot?

I seem to recall a solinoid operated 24 volt M38 starter. Is there such a thing? A fellow/friend with a sore foot is wondering. I see 12 volt starters, but I'm not sure the tooth count for a CJ5 ring gear is the same as military. 124, 129 tooth counts? Confusing. You could tap one of the 12 volt batterys , but the modern solinoid starter may not work with the flywheel. Anyone done this? Thanks, John

wesk · Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:49 am Post subject:

John, The 124 tooth flywheel is peculiar to the early unsealed M38 bell housing. The 129 is common to both the CJ5 and all the M38A1's. This of course assumes we are talking stock jeeps. The stock prestolite CJ5 12 volt starter uses a 129 tooth flywheel. It is a followthru Bendix drive which means the force to move the bendix drive gear in mesh with the flywheel is rotational thru the starter's electric motor. This all means you could have a shop rewind the CJ5 starter for 24 volt. This would only leave the need for a 24 volt intermittent duty solenoid rated above 200 amps which should not be too hard to find.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

RICKG · Member Joined: Aug 31, 2010 Posts: 1741 Location: SO IDAHO

Brothers Oilleaker and Wes have always got my six, thanks friends. It's my M38 and unfortunately my foot. A chronic condition from injury years ago.

A great deal of pressure is applied to a small area on the starter plunger to
activate the starter.

The jeep is stock 24V, 129 T flywheel, MCZ4001UT starter. Can the manual switch on the stock MCZ4001UT be replaced with a 24V elect solenoid? Then perhaps mod the orig foot plunger to activate the solenoid?? Interesting possibilities..

Scratch that idea. A quick trip to the Ord 9 clearly shows the starter drive is yoke actuated by the same lever that actuates the switch. I just need to "cowboy up" and beat the medical condition. And I will.
_________________
keep 'em rollin'
RICKG MC 51986 DOD 01-52, '50 CJ3a

oilleaker1 · Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 1:48 pm Post subject:

Thanks for your reply Wes. We even considered tapping a 12 , running a separate battery cable for one of the new 12 volt starters if it would mesh with his flywheel and bolt pattern. Leave all else stock. John

4x4M38 · Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:35 pm Post subject:

Sounds like you need a co-pilot to kick that switch for you Rick!
_________________
Brian
1950 M38
MC11481
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album372&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

wesk · Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:28 pm Post subject:

John,

The old 4WD brand snow plows and a few other heavy trucks used a deliberate two voltage system. They would select 24 volt for start which only gave 24V to the starter with the rest of the 12 V isolated. After start you switched to 12 V. This should be just as easy to do the opposite way.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

ldt465 · Member Joined: Mar 02, 2014 Posts: 1 Location: Idaho

Rick,

Give me a call..... Rob in Boise....I may have a 12 v starter or two... if you're interested..... you can get me at flxdsn@gmail.com I think you came by my shop a while back.

I remember Ron F had a unique 24 v solenoid operated starter on ebay a while back....looked homemade but well thought out.

a few M38a1's in the shop right now Smile

Also another friend finishing one up right now.....soon to be a few more in Boise....

Rgds,

Rob
_________________
ldt465

4x4M38 · Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:13 pm Post subject:

Hey Rick,
Kinda pricey but is this what you were thinking?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Autolite-24-volt-starter-solenoid-1940s-50s-military-vehicles-trucks-/181707131180?nav=SEARCH
_________________
Brian
1950 M38
MC11481
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album372&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

wesk · Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:14 pm Post subject:

There are no solenoids for the stock 24 V starter to operate the bendix. You must find a starter frame that supports the centrifugally positioned Bendix FoloThru unit. The easiest and cheapest is just a stock 12 volt 1955 thru 1971 Prestolite MDO-7004. You can 12V it and not crank it very long or you can have it converted to 24 volt.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

4x4M38 · Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:07 am Post subject:

Hello Wes,
That solenoid has a mechanical arm with clevis for pulling in
the gear end. It also has mounting flanges for the starter case.

Any idea what started it wound fit? It is an Autolite.
_________________
Brian
1950 M38
MC11481
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album372&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

wesk · Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:17 am Post subject:

There are dozens of old starters with electrical solenoids used to move the bendix into contact with the flywheel. They work fine. The Chevies 55-59 used one. The problem is adapting one to the MCZ4001UT starter. Tearing up a flywheel and pulling a flywheel off is the result of a less than perfect adaptation. Only a fool would take that route instead of adapting a stock CJ5 12 volt starter which we know will not damage the flywheel and we know fits the hole.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

4x4M38 · Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:16 pm Post subject:

Hi Wes,
And looking at the repair manual online here there is no
way to adapt that solenoid to the M38 OEM starter.
_________________
Brian
1950 M38
MC11481
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album372&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php


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