Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 1924 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:34 pm Post subject: Where is M38 Pilot Model MC10005 Today?
Studying the M38 Reference Guide as I sometimes do, I have a question that maybe the Author or one of the Contributors can help answer?
Page 24 says that one of the six M38 Pilot Models, serial number MC10005 (registration number 2368163) still exists "today".
The latest copyright date on my book is 2009 (I believe makes it the 2nd Edition), so "today" is now 13 years later.
Does anybody know where MC10005 is today (March 21, 2022)?
Is it privately owned? Still original? Restored? In a museum somewhere for all to see? Locked in a vault?
I searched this forum with no joy figuring if any info was available, it could be found here. Maybe I missed it.
I would've thought this special M38 would be fairly easy to find, maybe even see a few photo's of it "today", and see how history is treating it.
I couldn't find a copy of Army Motors #126 (dated April 2008).
I hope it's not a state secret. Just curiosity on my part.
Thinking others might be interested as well. _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
What happened to the answer you were given this morning? (It's shown in Bob Westerman's CJV35U Book) _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Apr 04, 2005 Posts: 219 Location: Monticello, NY
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:32 pm Post subject:
In 2007 I visited with the owner of MC 10005. It was in a private museum and the owner did not want his information made public. At that time MC 10005 had been restored by a previous owner and was still in good condition and mostly original. I have not attempted to keep track of it's location since then.
My research of the pilot models indicate that there were many changes made during the extensive testing by the Army. Therefore it is difficult to determine what changes were made by Willys and the Army and what changes were made during it's civilian life. _________________ Bob W. Monticello, NY. 1952 CJ3A, 1952 M38, 1950 CJV-35/U
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 1924 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:59 pm Post subject:
Thanks Wes and Bob for the information.
I only duplicated my question as a new post after wondering if tacking it on a semi-related year-old post was the best thing to do.
I should've asked the question as a new post the first time.
While I understand that Bob's new book about the CJV-35U might also include new information about the M38 and its pilot models, it wasn't clear to me that it actually answers the question if MC10005 exists today, now fifteen years after the last reported sighting. Or if it includes anything more about its history and ownership since 1950 than the line or two it got in the Reference Guide.
Part of me surely understands the owners' right to privacy and I certainly respect that. While another part of me wonders about the point of owning a piece of history and keeping it secretly hidden away. The only known M38 pilot model on the planet.
Oh well. Guess we'll all just have to keep believing that it exists. _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 1924 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2022 7:27 pm Post subject:
Yes, thanks Bob.
I said I'd keep believing that it does still exist. And I do.
I was just hoping for more information about it, including photos more recent that 70 years old to enjoy.
For the time being, I guess MC10005 is meant only for one man and his close friends to enjoy privately.
But like most of us (who can't take stuff with us when we go), perhaps the next owner will be more inclined to share with us less fortunate M38 enthusiasts.
Maybe he might even decide to make a few bucks by allowing a photo shoot and sell it's history for a book (or a third edition of the Reference Guide, in color this time).
I'd buy one. _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Interestingly (true or not) it says MC10005 (Army registration number 2368163) was never delivered to the Army.
Which makes for an even more unique history --- and maybe the reason it's the only known pilot model to survive to this day? _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Looks like you need to recognize members you are conversing with. BoBW = Bob Westerman. I have been involved on line with the M38 for 26 years and trust me when I say Bob's dedication to sharing info on line and in his several books has been going on for much longer. The site you noted was supplied with it's data from him. He and Harold are the two longest time officiondos of the M38. The tone of your last two replies indicated to me you were not aware of this history.
As for the many thousands of people who collect relics and treasures and do not directly offer to the rest of the world folks, I can only say it is a common phenomenon and may be due to their health, their lack of social skills, lack of finances or whatever but I don't think we need to admonish them on this forum. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 1924 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:21 am Post subject:
Thanks Wes.
Yes, I think I knew that BobW = Bob Westerman, but didn't want to type his last name in this public forum out of respect for his privacy, including the chance I'd be violating forum rules by doing so and get myself black-balled.
But now that you've said it.....
Yes, I routinely see his name, yours, Harold's, and others that I recognize and believe represent the heart and soul of M38 knowledge and experience.
I consider all of you to be the experts, masters, and "keepers of the flame" that lights the way for the rest of us.
Yes, the author and 24 names printed under the cover page of the M38 Reference Guide.
I couldn't do what I do with my M38 without everything all of you and others have done and continue to do for the rest of us. Thank you!
And I certainly had no intent to admonish anybody with my remarks. But if anybody took them that way --- my apology!
I still have a large case of curiosity about MC10005. Who wouldn't?
Mainly because it still exists today and so little has been published about it.
If it had been scrapped years ago there'd be nothing more to say. _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Joined: Nov 16, 2021 Posts: 65 Location: NE Washington
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:52 pm Post subject:
While I appreciate that it is privately owned, I can't say I understand the mindset not to make some information available on a unique (i.e. not just another M38) historic vehicle.
I've always thought owners have the (very unofficial) responsibility to share their "toys".
I have a (semi-) historic car, I've answered !any emails and phone calls about it as well as displaying it at shows and writing articles on it.
I understand not everyone feels the way I do, but looking at it long term, we are just temporarily caretakers of these things. _________________ 1955 M38A1 MD 82551
Former owner/restorer of 1977 CJ-5, stock with factory V-8.
Used as a daily driver for seven years.
Joined: Apr 04, 2005 Posts: 219 Location: Monticello, NY
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 6:51 pm Post subject:
JBJeep wrote:
I've always thought owners have the (very unofficial) responsibility to share their "toys".
The owner of MC 10005 allowed me to inspect it and photograph it. He did not know me before I contacted him. _________________ Bob W. Monticello, NY. 1952 CJ3A, 1952 M38, 1950 CJV-35/U
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