Joined: Jul 18, 2008 Posts: 639 Location: Melrose, MA and Santa Fe, NM
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:15 am Post subject: MB/GPW/M38 Engine Alternative
I was watching the Captain America (first one) movie the other day after seeing the post by capescw and got to thinking about our old jeeps. An article in Military Vehicles magazine pointed out that our old jeeps, and all old military vehicles for that matter, are having a harder and harder time finding replacement parts or NOS. I know that there are a number of good companies offering high-quality repro parts; at some point our vehicles will almost entirely repro parts if we ever intend to use them for more than museum display.
Anyway, I started thinking about what kind of engine would be ideal to fit into a MB/GPW repro body IF someone wanted to build a new "old" jeep. You would need the frame, body, running gear, etc, etc. I thought a VW engine might be good, similar sized 4 cylinder, but am not sure. And then there's the transmission, front and rear differentials, etc.
Just curious. I thought if I ever won a big lottery take maybe I would do something like that but this is more an exercise in curiosity "what-if".
Thanks!
It is possible to build a jeep. The only parts not available as repro are the engine, trans, transfer, axles and steering Ross box. And there are companies that sell rebuilt units and kits to rebuild. A well done restored engine if you have a core can set you back $6K and if you don't have a core add another $500. Frames and all the body parts, seats, radiators, springs, wiring harness and a host of other parts are being produced new. _________________ 1952 M38
Joined: Feb 16, 2007 Posts: 206 Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:05 pm Post subject:
Ford Pinto/Mustang engines have been used.
The bell housing should mate up with the Jeep transmission quite easily as they used to with the Ford Falcon 6 cylinder by adding a simple 5/8"-3/4"? spacer plate between the tranny & bellhousing. _________________ John GIBBINS
ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician 2002 USA
Licensed Motor Mechanic NSW # MVIC 49593 Current
YOU CAN'T TROUBLESHOOT WHAT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND
The best all around upgrade engine, the Buick V6, was adapted by Vic Hickey in the mid-60's for rock crawlers and open high plains racers. Then the Kaiser team went to Montana to see how Hickey did it and then Kaiser bought the 225 Dauntless V6 off of Buick and from about 1967 till 1971 or 73 in the Commando you could buy your new CJ5 or 6 from Kaiser with a V6 in it. This requires no grill cutting and no firewall cutting. You can buy brand new mount brackets from aftermarket sources and you can actually use any of the Buick rear wheel drive V6 engines from the 198 through the 252 Cu In. You can still buy new performance parts for these engines. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Is that Mitsu engine and it's parts readily available here in the US? _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Jul 18, 2008 Posts: 639 Location: Melrose, MA and Santa Fe, NM
Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 11:22 am Post subject:
It sounds like what everyone is sharing relates to M38A1s and CJ's instead of MB/GPWs. I know those older ones are outside of our site's purview here but got to thinking. Once you start looking at a non-Willys engine I would imagine one should also look at alternative gear boxes, transmission, etc.
But the whole train of thought was really following up on something I was curious about - if you were going to make a "new" MB/GPW using repro bodies, parts, and a non-MB/GPW engine how would you go about doing that. Probably a question better asked on the G503 site but Wes and others here are a wealth of knowledge.
As I mentioned, just a thought exercise.
The V6 bolts in the MB/GPW just as easy. The simple answer is it all depends on where you are located, What's available in that area, what you wish to spend, what you wish to do with the jeep (to determine performance level needed) and who is going to do the work. 73 years of jeep has already taught us what works best for which of the above points and my experience over the last 44 years of working with jeeps is the Buick V-6 is the most easily adaptable with a serious increase in power that matches the original purpose of the jeep. That was combining off road driving with highway driving. The next best but requires more adapting in the Chevy 90 Degree V6 line. V-8's are overkill and overweight and tend to blow stock trannies, transfers and axles/driveshafts. Inline 6's require serious firewall and grill/radiator work. Modern 4 cylinders usually require high RPMs to put out the same torque an F-134 does.
Answer the 5 questions above and any web site that talks jeeps can give you a reasonable answer. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Well while you are wondering and you did start this thread, why not answer the 5 questions and give the troops here a shot?
Quote:
1 where you are located,
2 What's available in that area,
3 what you wish to spend,
4 what you wish to do with the jeep (to determine performance level needed) and
5 who is going to do the work.
Joined: Jul 18, 2008 Posts: 639 Location: Melrose, MA and Santa Fe, NM
Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 9:00 pm Post subject:
Sure:
1 where you are located, - Boston, MA area
2 What's available in that area, - not sure, haven't looked
3 what you wish to spend, - not sure as I was more curious about what if's
4 what you wish to do with the jeep (to determine performance level needed) and - The objective would be to have a WWII looking period jeep to use as a daily or other driver, to have fun in, and to run around the woods as well as on Martha's Vineyard in the Summers.
5 who is going to do the work. - not sure but probably some myself, though more someone else. I have very little garage or working space - or tools, etc.
As I mentioned, I got to thinking about it for a few reasons. My neighbor has an original 1960's VW similar to the one he had stationed in Germany. I have a 1952 M38, mostly original, but am not comfortable taking it on long drives. I've always loved the WWII jeeps and with a family home on the water down long dirt roads I have wanted to get my M38 out there - and a "modern" MB/GPW would be a blast on the island. But seeing all the adverts for repro body tubs, parts, etc, the recent movies with the Hotchkiss and stand-in WWII jeeps/vehicles prompted me to wonder what if.
Hopefully my next home will have a lot more space and area to work my jeep over - and the other vehicles I have that I'm working on. My 1996 Chevrolet Tahoe truck always needs brake lines replaced after a Summer on Martha's Vineyard. I was given a 1986 Jaguar that needs a ton of work and I'm helping my father restore and maintain a 1964 Apollo (see last year's Concorso Italiano for their 50th Anniversary event). Not enough know-how, time, space, or equipment right now. But you never know..... Thanks for the ideas and I'm curious what the results will be. Are repro frames and drivetrains, etc. made as well as the body tubs?
Thanks!
Joined: Feb 16, 2007 Posts: 206 Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 11:32 am Post subject:
You could do some searching regarding Philippines Jeeps. MD Juan are not the only ones in the Jeep building business as anyone who had visited/lived in the Philippines would know.
They fit WW2 Jeep style bodies to most Japanese brand/sourced used small pickup trucks. I am not talking about Jeepneys but regular small MB/GPW copy Jeeps. There are some with stainless steel bodies.
Quote:
My 1996 Chevrolet Tahoe truck always needs brake lines replaced after a Summer on Martha's Vineyard.
Cunifer or cupro nickel brake lines is what you should be using instead of cheap China sourced steel lines.
Do a search on "cupro nickel brake lines".... _________________ John GIBBINS
ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician 2002 USA
Licensed Motor Mechanic NSW # MVIC 49593 Current
YOU CAN'T TROUBLESHOOT WHAT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND
Joined: Feb 20, 2007 Posts: 606 Location: Illinois
Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:29 pm Post subject:
Or, you could buy a new 2014 Jeep Wrangler, save the historic vehicle from getting cut up and have a modern vehicle you can take anywhere. And a warrenty to boot. _________________ 1951 M38
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Thanks for the ideas and I'm curious what the results will be. Are repro frames and drivetrains, etc. made as well as the body tubs?
