M C 38 difference

[buzzk]

how does one tell the difference from the other M 38 from the marine corp M 38 rear cross-member is square and posi-trac ?

[wesk]

Positracs didn't show up in the Marine corp units until the 1960 USMC contracts for the M38A1. The earlier USMC M38A1's that stayed in the Marines were updated at their next depot overhauls at Albany or Barstow.

The boxed rear bumper & large lift clevises were a M38A1 M170 thing:



The M38 differences found in Marine M38 units would only have been the paint color, undercoating and the markings.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[buzzk]

I have pics of the boxed rear cross-member on a 38 looks to be the real thing

[wesk]

Well since the rear cossmember on both the M38 and the M38A1 are the same part that means anyone military or civilian could install that kit on either jeep but the Marines did not issue that kit for the M38. The kit can also be installe on the CJ3A, CJ3B, CJ5 & CJ6. To use it on an M38 is fine but not for a displayed motor pool class jeep without some period evidence they were actually installed on an M38 by the Corps.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[buzzk]

the depot maintenance tag on the dash says marine corps I have a pic of it thx buz

[skyjeep50]

Not only can the rear cross member be replaced by a civilian owner but the dash plate can be traded out as well.
_________________
1951 M38

[buzzk]

I understand all this but the dash tag would be changed by the Depot Maintenance I would think that the dash tag would be harder to get seeing how not many went to the Marines buzzz

[wesk]

I assume when you say dash plate you are referring to either the "Responsible Agency" plate or a special added plate from the Barstow Depot. The responsible agency plate simply states the overhaul authority is the USMC Depot not that the jeep ever made it to a Marine overhaul depot. The "Responsible Agency" was available in replacement form in the military supply system both individually and as part of a full replacement data plate set.


This is a straight US Army plate.


This plate would have been used at Willys up to about 55 and shows the jeep was Procured by the Army and delivered to the Marines.


Here's a Navy jeep procured by the Army and delivered to the Navy up to 1955.

After 55 the Navy, Air Force and Marines procured their own jeeps under their own contract numbers and the plate would show them in both block.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[buzzk]

yep that's the responsible agency Marine Corps plate I have a pic of, so would that confirm the rear box cross member, which would make that somewhat of a rarity ? thx buzz

[wesk]

The plate only confirms the jeep was procured on the Army contract for delivery to the Marine. That plate says nothing about any modification ever made in the field by the Marines. I know yyou would like to believe the jeep had the boxed crossmember added by the Marines while in service but that is a very slim possibility. If you had a separate dash plate with a Barstow or Albany rebuild plate then it may be more plausible. With only the original factory installed Responsible Agency plate there is nothing on your jeep to confirm it ever went to either depot for any reason. The fact that the Marines didn't develop a boxed rear bumber kit for the M38 and the fact that the existing kit paperwork only lists the newer M38A1, M170 makes the odds very high that your jeep was modified in the field by someone, but who can never be proven.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[buzzk]

thx buzzz

[BullRun]

I have met a few guys who bought M38's from military surplus yards in the mid 1960's and literally drove them home.

Anything is possible but by the time USMC reinforced rear crossmembers were developed the M38 was an old vehicle on the way out of regular use.

In 2014 old jeeps are sometimes hard to pin down on what you see. A couple years ago I found an original M151A1 for sale in New Jersey except it was not original at all. It had been a demilled unit and was so expertly put back together with an appropriately fake aged paint job it was really impossible to tell from an unrestored "barn find" type vehicle.

[skyjeep50]

What I meant was somebody in the past could have taken a screwdriver and taken the original data plate off the jeep and put another one in its place. If you have the tools you can take anything off a jeep and move it around to other vehicles.
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1951 M38

[Jim]

When my wife and I purchased our M38 all the plates
were shiny and new, as the PO thought the old ones
were dull and worn looking. Very fortunately, he also
kept the old ones and included them in the sale. But,
unfortunately, he licensed and titled it with the new
info. When we sold it eight years later, I made sure
that the original plates went with it and explaned what
had been done. The new owner, from Baja Oklahoma,
can now return it to orignial or leave it as is. I hope he
makes the right decision.

Jim in Darkest Arkansas

[buzzk]

I haven't seen a rear cross member like that in a long time on a 38 or A1 or marine data plates makes me wonder if its real I've been messing w/jeeps since 85 any body live near Jackson Tenn maybe could look at it needs a front floor board buzzz