Joined: May 14, 2009 Posts: 971 Location: South Dakota
Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:27 pm Post subject:
Ben, never run alcohol gas, never run regular, always premium. I use a little sea foam additive when I store them, stabil is supposed to be good and a friend of mine who uses it always has carb problems. Makes me wonder. I've stored cars up to 2 1/2 years with good old premium and have not had a problem. I have seen what alcohol does to diaphrams. It makes them brittle and cracked. I don't think some stations are honest when they post the non alcohol regular. That's why I always run premium. Glad you are getting it to run better! John
On the gas and stabil thing I have never fooled with stabil. For all my old engines I mix regular pump gas 50/50 with 100LL Leaded Aviation Gas. No gasket problems last 10 years, no seal problems the last 10 years, no carb problems the last 10 years. 2 jeeps, 54 Dodge M37, 47 Allis Chalmers B, and several small engines.
The fuel choices discussion comes up about every two months and I have always stated this same thing. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
I'm afraid I have to disagree with the post about premium gas. First these engines were designed for 68 octane gas and we are running gas that is 19 octane higher with regular. Running premium gas is unnecessary and if you run your engine hard it could wind up burning the exhaust valves.
As for ethanol, if you can find gas without ethanol by all means use it. It's been years since I saw gas that didn't claim to have some ethanol in it. Wes's solution mixing av gas with regular minimizes the ethanol and the octane at the same time. Not all of us can do that however, and if your fuel system has modern rubber parts in it, it should be fine with normal gas. There is the problem of the ethanol attracting moisture and going bad in the tank, but that is a different problem. The best solution there is lots of driving. Keeping the tank full though, will minimize condensation in the tank.
The moisture problem is the second reason I don't agree with using premium. My father owned a gas station for over 42 years and he always told me to avoid premium gas if I was out in the boonies. The reason being that premium sits in the stations gas tank for a lot longer than the regular gas does. Not many people buy premium gas. At our station we used to go through 5 or more tanks of regular before we had to buy more premium, and this happened even though we bought premium in much smaller shipments. The tank does not get flushed out nearly as quickly and can have lots more trash or water in it. Out in the boonies at some small country gas station, it might be months before they have to buy more premium gas. At big stations that go through lots of gas, this probably not a problem. With ethanol this whole issue is much more acute than it ever was before. I can promise you that premium gas does not mean higher quality. Just higher octane.
If you can find gas without ethanol, go for it. Wes's avgas solution is another way, but if all else fails, run regular and keep the tank full. Thats what I do and I've never had a problem. Now I better go find some wood to knock on.
Joined: May 14, 2009 Posts: 971 Location: South Dakota
Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:00 am Post subject:
Aviation fuel is good stuff ! It stores the best. Definately mix as Wes says or it makes premium look like cheap regular. I can't get regular to store in my cars and stay good more than 9 months. I don't have a easy way to get Avgas unless you drive 30 miles to the airport with your buddy pilot cause they don't sell it to the general public . I don't see my exhaust color changing and notice too hot a burn with premium. There is a station in the next town that sells very high octane fuel, but you pay for it. Anyway, you got to do what works for you. I have used regular in my M37's when I know I'll be driving a bunch cause there is no problem with getting it out--------they love to use gas John
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:41 am Post subject: Engine Cutting Out
Hi All, thanks for your recent post; I have been having trouble with my email and didn't know until I went to the site directly that you had answered.
Yesterday, we checked the timing and I was wrong when I posted last that it was near on; wrong, it was nearly 2" before TDC and surprisingly, it ran pretty good although I don't know the problems it would have caused if left where it was. It is dead on 5 degrees BTDC, the RPM is on and it ran just great for the 2 mile in subdivision drive.
However, we noticed a new problem; we just seem to take two steps forward and one back. Just after staring, I noticed a 12" or so liquid puddle under the front drivers side. I first I thought it was coolant, but quickly realized it was gas. At first glance inside the motor compartment, one could see that the fuel pump was covered with fuel. Quickly cutting the engine, we dried the fuel off the pump and with fire extinguisher in hand, started it to see where it was leaking. Nothing!!! The rest of the day, we tinkered with this and that with a watchful eye but nothing. We timed it and ran the RPM test and drove it as I said with no further leak. And, it ran great with no re-occurance of the cutting out problem.
We realize we have a potential diaster. This fuel pump was completely restored by a professional company some 5 years ago; do you suppose we have a similar problem of cracked gasket that we had with the carb? But, if so, how did the fuel get outside of the pump. One note, instead of a vacuum line from pump to the rear, we have an insert with a ball and spring, would a stuck ball allow fuel to escape from that orfice?
About the fuel, I checked around and I could not find any station here that would guarantee no ethenol although a couple of cashiers admitted that some of their people tell customers that their premium does not contain any but they use their tanks for both (not at the same time). My carb restorer and some of you have said it right, we believe, the answer is to drive it often.
Thanks again for all your help. Semper Fi Ben and Ben _________________ Semper Fi Ben M38 & M100
One note, instead of a vacuum line from pump to the rear, we have an insert with a ball and spring, would a stuck ball allow fuel to escape from that orfice?
Ben,
That is the vent that was used to pass crankcase pressure on to the tranny and transfer and bell for fording. Your relief valve installation is the same thing that was done on 53 and on M38A1's when the fording plumbing was discontinued. There should only be crankcase breather pressure in that chamber. Fuel in there means you have a diaphragm or diaphragm gasket leak inside the fuel side of the pump. Remove the check/relief valve and you should see no liguid coming out from that port. If you do see oil or fuel leaking from there remove the pump and repair it. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:53 am Post subject: Engine Cutting Out
Hi Wes, thanks for your reply; what you said pretty much confirms my thinking and that is always good.
Remembering that we saw no fluid on or around the fuel pump as we spent about an hour tinkering and driving it after we saw the fluid, I would like to believe that the problem does not exist; but I can't, as I know we have a potential fire hazard. And, we don't even know for sure that the fluid came from the relief valve. I suppose removing the pump and sending it to a professional is the best solution but I want to be sure all of that is necessary---removal is not easy in our situation.
Trying to think this through last night, I remember that we did both the fuel pump pumping and the vacumm tests less than a month ago, and they were on the money. Just in case something happened since, we will re-do the tests before removing the pump just to see if there is any change. Question: If they test out ok, could there still be damage inside the pump?
If the line was installed as it probably should have been back to the transmission, and IF that orfice is where the fluid came from, it would have gone to the transmission, right? In this one instance, the limited amount would not have done any lasting damage to the transmission, right? If so, one option would be to try to take a line to the transmission to get any future gas away from the hot motor but that would probably be more trouble than removing the pump, right? Another opotion might be to run a line aft out of the motor compartment to take any gasoline from the orifice out side of the hot motor compartment but not hook it to anything. And, what about, just capping the relief valve, would the pressure buildup inside the pump damage a good pump?
I have forgotten the professinal to whom I sent it for rebuild, do you have any recommendation, if that ends up being the only solution?
Thanks and Semper Fi Ben _________________ Semper Fi Ben M38 & M100
All you need to do at this point is remove the relief/check valve and run a tube or hose to a safe location and operate the jeep normally. If and when you detect any fluid flow from the tube then address the problem accordingly.
Be for-warned that trapping any fluid in that cavity is not possible since it is open to the crankcase. The only result of allowing gas to leak into that cavity with the cavity outer port capped will be dilution of your engine oil by the fuel that will then flow into the crankcase. If gas has in fact been leaking into that cavity already you will probably smell the gas in your engine oil today. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:29 pm Post subject: Engine Cutting Out
Hi all, Wes has given me a lot of good answers, but regarding the gasoline on the fuel pump, I have yet a follow up question regarding the possibility that the fuel did not come from the relief valve:
If the fuel observed did not come from the valve, does anyone have any idea as to where is could otherwise come from providing gas lines connections are not leaking.
Furthmore, would anyone know of something that could cause an incidental fuel discharge from the pump or some immediate area? As an example, at would the timing being off considerably the time, almost 2 inches BTDC, possibly cause such a reaction?
Thanks, we are proceeding as I explained in my last post but would like to tie this matter down? Semper Fi Ben and Ben _________________ Semper Fi Ben M38 & M100
The leak will be from the wet spot or the edge of the wet spot or it may have leaked down from above the wet spot.
The only folks who can answer these questions are you and your son.
Your 3 degree timing error towards retard would not have generated any sudden spurts of raw gas anywhere. It would only have resulted in a very slight reduction in power. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Have you checked the resistor connected to the coil? I had about same problem when I bought my M38A1. Turned out that the external coil resistor was intermittant and caused it to quit. I replaced the resistor, and , problem was solved. Hope this helps.
Randall
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:40 am Post subject: Engine Cutting Out
Hi All, I am not getting emails telling me that I have had traffic on this site so I am late sometimes checking the actual forum.
Hal, please stop by on your way to Jeff City. Do you remember how to get here? If you travel US 54, take a left on the first street at the top of the hill after you go over the bridge on Lakeview Drive and proceed 1 mile to circle---I'm the first house on the left on the outside of the circle. If coming up MO 5, turn left at the Stop Light and go 1 mile to the same street but turn right.
Wes, you are right about the trying to locate the leak but it all happend so fast. Again, I noticed a puddle on the floor directly beneath the fuel pump; immediately looking in the engine compartment, I saw that the gas pump was covered with fluid; we dried it off thinking we would see some more coming from some place but we didn't---hasn't happened since. As soon as possible, we are going to make the two tests again, i.e., vacumn and pump strength---a month or so ago, they were right on.
In the meantime, I have a long line to attach to the check valve to run outside the engine compartment to reduce the possibility of a fire.
Is there a list of vendor who rebuild fuel pumps, just in case. Semper Fi Ben _________________ Semper Fi Ben M38 & M100
All times are GMT - 6 Hours Goto page Previous1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Page 5 of 5
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Keeping the tank full though, will minimize condensation in the tank.
