Leaks

[Bob_C]

Well,

Just got my tags and stuff yesterday, so I've been driving the heck out of my M38A1. Always popping my head underneath the jeep to make sure nothing is blowing up. So far, it pretty much looks a-ok - except for some yucky leaks.

Transfer case front and rear yokes are leaking. The rear one leaks pretty good. Seams to get worse when the oil gets warm. Transmission leaks too, right at the input shaft seal. Probably the worst leak of them all is the steering gearbox (Right at the pitman arm). Drove it around for a few days, and today noticed oil on the leaf springs and on the underside of the frame. Wiped it up today, and drove it around for a few more hours, and had to wipe it up again (although not as much).

The thing that gets me is I replaced all of these seals. Every single last one of them. I know jeeps have a reputation for leaking, but Im still a little concerned. Any reason that these leaks could be going on? Are they normal? I'm taking it I'm going to have to replace some of these seals again. But if some of them are normal, then Im just gonna say forget about it.
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Bob Collins
1954 M38A1 MD79056

[PeteL]

When you replaced the seals did you adjust and/or replace the associated bearings? A shaft that has a lot of bearing slop will be hard to seal. Good examples are the transfer case output shaft bearings.

Did you check the shaft surfaces the seals run against? Sometimes if they are scored or rough they can be polished or sleeved. Occasionally there is room to add a second seal, doubling them up.

Pete

[Bob_C]

I was thinkign about that (the rough shaft). That's pretty plausible, but I also thought I remember checking for that. Who knows at this point, I did all of the seals on the t case 8 months ago. As for the bearings, I did not replace any in the tcase / transmission. All were in good shape. The jeep had realitively low miles on the power train and was rebuilt before i had it and never used.

I was also thinking -- Does the TCase get filled up till it starts pouring out of the fill plug? Or is there a specific capacityf or it? I know I exceeded the capacity stated that it holds in the manual -- but I figured it was just because of the Overdrive installed.
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Bob Collins
1954 M38A1 MD79056

[PeteL]

Bob, it was more than 30 years since I did it last, but as I recall I once cured a transfer case leak by tightening up the bearings.

I'm a little hazy on this now, but I believe the output shaft is on tapered rollers and there is a shim pack for taking up wear - even if the bearings look good, they may need adjustment.

Someone else here wiil know the details.

Pete

[Ryan_Miller]

Bob,

I am sure Wes will post on this one.

I would have your stuff looked over by a mechanic as Pete could be corret on the bearings.

Also make sure that you properly torqued all of your bolts.

The surfaces the gaskets seal must be in good shape too. sometimes the bolts were overtightened previously (timing cover plate for example) and this causes an uneven surface which could allow for leaks.
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Ryan Miller
MVPA # 22010

[hillbilly21]

3 pints of fluid in the tranny case....As far as leaks go I am in the same boat with my M38A1.. lots of time an $$$$ went down the road leaks in transfer case.. I went and got some leak sealer for manual trannys.. put it in and sure enough it worked ... I still have a drip or two abut not as bad, as I did before ... I have to agree with the fore-mention of a rough shaft or worn ... I do believe this is the case with most leaks under our JEEPS>>

[Bob_C]

Well I just dropped the driveshafts, and torqued the yokes down. They moved a little bit, so lets see if this helps.

As for the steering gearbox, heres something new. Just left it over night and it didnt leak one drop. Wondering if its leaking when the pitman arm is positioned in certain way....althought I wouldnt have thought that would of mattered.
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Bob Collins
1954 M38A1 MD79056

[Ryan_Miller]

Bob,

did you replace the bearings and the seals on the steering gearbox?

What kind of lubricant did you put in the steering box?

I hope things work out after tightening a few things.
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Ryan Miller
MVPA # 22010

[wesk]

Off the department store shelf Stop Leaks are a get her home so you can fix it thing. These canned miracles do not stop congealing and sealing as soon as that single external leak slows down. The work forever at plugging all passages.

If a seal leaks it is because:
1-the seal is damaged or the wrong size.
2-the joint the seal is trying to seal is loose or incorrect size or has roughness or localized wear.
3-The fluid the seal is suppose to hold back is too thin or there is more pressure behind the fluid then the seal was designed for..

In each of the above cases stop leak is a temporary band aid and a long term danger.

In the case of number 1 the seal is easily damaged when the shaft is pushed thru it without a close inspection of the shaft for roughness and sharp edges.

In the case of 2 as Pete mentioned there are "redi-sleeves" mad to cover worn or grooved shafts and there are double lip seals designed to compensate for the grooved area of the shaft.

In the case of 3 a wrong visocity oil or excess amounts can cause the leak.

It would be interesting to see accurate measurements for the amount of free play both linear and radial found in both your bearings and bushings where seals and shafts were involved. Was it .001 or .03? or somewhere in between?
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[Bob_C]

I couldnt tell you Wes. I don't quite remember, I did all of that stuff last summer.

Will order new seals soon and pull the steering gearbox / Tcase yoke seals. Kinda puzzled though why the gearbox leaks though while it is being driven, but doesnt shed a drop when it sits. Tcase is the same way. Doesnt leak unless its being driven. I have 85W in both the steering gearbox and tcase. Isn't that what the manual says I'm supposed to have in them?

I really dont recall any burrs in the metal, but I'm sure it is possible.
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Bob Collins
1954 M38A1 MD79056

[PeteL]

If it leaks only while running, that could support the loose bearing/wobbly shaft possibility. Or it may be that the oil level is below that area at rest and only gets splashed around when in motion.

Pete