M38a1 Transmission/Transfer Case Separation Problem

[jeeplvr247]

I have been kicking around the idea of changing the seals out in my trans and transfer case for quite some time to get rid of the leaks. Today I started in on the project and ran into a road block when separating the trans from transfer case. The transmission main shaft bearing pulled out with the transfer case instead of the transmission. I tried tapping the shaft but I could not get it to budge. Right now they are still together but pulled about two inches apart. I do not know how to get the bearing out of the transfer case without damaging it. Please help.
Thanks

[Bretto]

Did you remove the large round cover on the back of the transfer case to remove the large nut that holds the gear to the tranny shaft?
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Brett
'51 M38
PHOTO DIARY OF MY BUILD

[jeeplvr247]

Yup, I had everything pulled apart. It appears to me that the bearing cup has gotten quite cozy with the transfer case. I tried to get it out but I did not want to tap it hard and damage the bearing. I have been told by one source that since the bearing pulled out a bit I will have to reassemble all of the gears in the transmission.

[Xamon]

the main concern is if the needle bearings in the trans have shifted or fallen out.
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Carievale Saskatchewan Canada
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album210&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[skyjeep50]

Part of the instructions for separating the transfer from the trans is to remove the shift tower and install a special tool to retain the trans main shaft and not allow it to be pulled rearward. Alternatively, the main shaft can be held in place by heavy wire looped around shaft with the ends of the wire held by the shift tower bolts. The bearing is only held by a friction fit but it is snug - it may take a little more juice to loosen it from the housing. Use a dead blow mallet and make sure the two cases are supported in-line to prevent binding. See TM9-804.
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1951 M38

[jeeplvr247]

I was able to get them apart with just some tapping around the cup. It was pointed out to me on g503 that my TM is intended for a complete disassemble of the transmission so they did not care if the bearing came out or not. Now that they are apart can I just stick the bearing back in the trans or do I have to tear the whole thing down and put it back together?

[wesk]

If you allowed the tranny main shaft to move any at all you better disassemble the tranny as well. If just one needle roller gets loose you will have grief either during re-assembly of the transfer to the tranny or after assembly you may have to pull it all out again. Not fun.

The large rear bearing is of no real concern. It is the 88 little tiny rollers inside that main shaft cluster gear that can get disturbed and ruin your day.

The manual warning to secure the tranny main shaft before separating the transfer from the tranny applies all the time.

Look in your ORD 9 parts manual at Fig 7-03 on page 186. Note the items "N"
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[Bretto]

It doesn't sound like you moved anything out of place other than the tranny's output rear shaft. Worst case, you dropped out one or more of the 10 roller bearings out of the rear of the input front shaft. Check the bottom the tranny for them and fish them out, make sure you end up with 10.
Here are some good links on rebuilding these boxes.
http://www.cj3apage.com/index/Tech_Tips/T-90%20Rebuild.htm
http://www.cj3apage.com/index/Tech_Tips/Model%2018%20Rebuild.htm
http://www.cj3apage.com/index/Tech_Tips/DougHD-18TransfertCase.htm
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Brett
'51 M38
PHOTO DIARY OF MY BUILD

[jeeplvr247]

I was working with TM9-8015-2 and 9-8014 and unfortunately neither made a suggestion for securing the bearing and, as I am a true novice, I blazed ahead into this predicament. Is there a good way to test whether or not I displaced any of the rollers without taking it apart? Here is a picture of the current situation at the rear of the transmission. http://imgur.com/HE4h9dZ

[Bretto]

Don't worry too much if you did or didn't, many have had these fall out but you have to account for all 10. It's more of an oops than a problem. Chances are you have dropped one or two. It's best to just remove the output shaft and take a look. It can be done by sliding the 2nd/3rd shift collar either front or back, I can't recall the direct but one or the other, then you can slide the whole shaft out the rear of the tranny. You will then see the bearings we are talking about. If any are missing, you need to fish them from the bottom of the case. When you go to put them back in, you can use some thick assembly lube or Vaseline to hold them in place. I found they to hold in place once all ten are in place though without the use of any lube. Then slowly and carefully put the output shaft back on place and temporarily hold the shaft in place with some wire wrapped around it and bound to 2 bolts.

_________________
Brett
'51 M38
PHOTO DIARY OF MY BUILD

[jeeplvr247]

Thanks, that really helps. I will check it out sometime this week and figure out whether or not any dropped out.

[wesk]

It has been almost a common piece of advice when rebuilding or repairing trannies, transfer and jeep engines to arm one's self with all the data one can find. The civilian manuals in these three topics offer a few tidbits not found in the Army manuals. Also the very well known benchmark treatises on the rebuilding of the tranny and transfer that have been used at least for the last 10 to 15 years are the two Rick Stivers guides.

But, since the recent collapse of the Willys Tech site where they were stored they are difficult to access.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[Bretto]

I have to make a correction to my statement, there are 14 roller bearings, not 10. Sorry about that.
_________________
Brett
'51 M38
PHOTO DIARY OF MY BUILD

[jeeplvr247]

Interesting turn of events tonight. I went to work on the transmission fully ready to go hunting for a bunch of roller bearings and I realized that the shaft never actually moved. It was just the bearing that came back. Can I get this to seat again by just tapping it? I tried a bit tonight but did not seem to make any progress.
Also, I have been looking for a good guideline on torque specs for putting everything back together. The most consistent answer I can find is 35ft-lbs for the transfer case to transmission bolts, 50 for the main shaft nut, 200 for the transfercase shaft nuts, and standard torque guidelines for everything else. Most of the bolts are 9/16" so it looks like the charts are usually about 110 ft-lbs, that seems a little high to me. The definitely were not on that tight when I pulled everything apart. Do you guys agree with this?

[jeeplvr247]

It looks like I was wrong about none of the roller bearing moving. Apparently some must have shifted (not fallen out) and were preventing the shaft from moving all the way forward. We took everything apart and put the roller bearing back it, having a powerful magnet on hand proved to be key as bearings and syncro plates kept dropping into the oily abyss. Now the bearing is back where it belongs, it sits so shallow in the case that it does not like to stay put but we have everything wired together. I am still seeking out input on the matter of torque specs for everything but it seems like there are many opinions out there.