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willysmjeeps.com :: View topic - Early M38CDN And the Jeep script
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Early M38CDN And the Jeep script

 
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donk_316
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Joined: Sep 14, 2013
Posts: 8
Location: Edmonton, AB, CA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:47 pm    Post subject: Early M38CDN And the Jeep script Reply with quote

Hello,
The little research I've done and talking to other owners...

It looks like the first 300 or so M38CDN machines had the JEEP script in front of the tool box and no CAR stamp in the frame.

I'm basing this information off of my serial number of F100240 and talking to the owner of F100299. We both have no stamp in the frame and JEEP script in front of the the tool box. unfortunately neither of us have our CAR numbers. It will be a few months before I can start stripping paint to find numbers or markings but I'm not holding my breath as the old girl has been skiffed with bondo and paint.
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1942 WLA DOD 6-5-45
1952 M38 CDN DOD 4-4-52
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wesk
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe I understand a wee bit of the 52 M38 CDN history and the actual number of Ford Toronto built units with the Jeep script on the front of the tool box has not been ascertained with an exact serial number coming to mind.

I also recall that the CAR numbers that were stamped in the frame were stamped by the Canadian military and not Ford.

Hopefully a few Canadian members with more expertise will chime in here.

Is it possible your frames were very lightly stamped or replacements?
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

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frankthecrank58
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Location: Osoyoos.British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

my understanding is that the jeep script tool boxes were used until the supply from willys ran out and ford made their own. I also believe that every vehicle had a car #. if the m38 cdn database is correct there is a jeep with a serial of f100113 that has a car #. the location of the car # is on the top driver frame rail about 6-8 inches away from the grille hinge. it was liberally covered with paint and involved some careful paint removal. one or two of the numbers are harder to read than the others. it may take some effort but I think you'll find them .
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Frank 1952 M38 Cdn CAR 52-31812,1952 M38 Cdn F100005, 1967 Jeepster, 1999 XJ, 1999 TJ " rubiCLONE"
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donk_316
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Location: Edmonton, AB, CA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank, every one of them had a CAR number but I keep finding stories like mine where the number isn't stamped into the frame and is only painted. That early serial numbered m38cdn might have had the painted number for reference.
I have the frame horn stripped to bare metal and can see that nothing has ever been stamped into it. I had a later m38cdn frame (DOD august) next to mine and it shows the numbers clearly stamped into the frame.

Anyways the point is that the first 300 or so used the JEEP script on the tool box.
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wesk
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be interesting to see how many after serial 300 have been discovered with the frame rail CAR number missing. There is always the possibility the frame has been repaired or replaced or the number simply eroded away in the last half century. Perhaps a few of those owners will speak up. I recall a few other CDN owners with numbers further on that could not locate their frame CAR numbers.

It would also be nice to hear from any owners of the brand new US Army lot of earlier M38's that were transferred to Canada before Ford started building them.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

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pickle
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Joined: Mar 19, 2010
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Location: Brandon, Manitoba Canada

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:01 pm    Post subject: M38 CDn jeep logo Reply with quote

Hello all.

I can only add that in addition to what is above, I found one other M38CDN with the "jeep" script on the toolbox here in Manitoba and no frame stamp. This person did find a number on the hood (different from where normal CARs were painted on tub locations)...It had a serial 10565. the CAR was low number on the hood, and it was a date of delivery may 5th.

I have tried to track one on mine for sometime now more so that I can put one one that is within the range that it is supposed to be. I have put together a spreadsheet of M38 CDN jeeps that have one or both serial and CARs. I put these together for the Website as there is a need for that type of information here. I know of probably of few more that I am trying to identify, and if anyone has any, I would appreciate to put them in the list to provide to the website.

I found it interesting that the two that I have found were not to far from each other in location.

The only thing I will add is that there are a couple of people who have provided good advice to the M38 CdN CARS or lack there of. One of them is Wes with the advice about replacement frame possibilities. The other two is Bryan Asbury, who is very knowledgeable about these jeeps. Brian suggested to see if there was an inspector stamp on the frame. The other was someone from the Ottawa area (can't remember the name now) but he suggested to look at the back of the data plate...sometimes the CAR was written with a grease pencil when things were being inspected. Also, if the jeep did not fail the first inspection, there is a chance that the CARs would appear in sequence and thus may be able to figure out from the serial...I have not seen too many examples of this yet however.

Hope this helps.


Myles
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donk_316
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pickles,
So F100565 had the JEEP script also? So is it safe to say the first 500-600 had the script? Thats a pretty good chunk of the 2100 or so that were built.

Just for the record i also have the dataplates from F101711 and it did not have the script (did have the CAR stamp on frame)

I can only assume that Jeep gave Ford the panels and of course they would be stamped. Wouldn't special tooling need to be made to "delete" the script?

I apologize ahead of time if some of this has been covered before. Most of my Google searches show up with information like "very few were produced with the script" or "all M38CDN had CAR number stamped on frame"

Also i need to clarify that i do not think the lack of stamp and the Jeep script are related. They are just the only "mysteries / rumors" that surround the M38CDN
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Xamon
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Location: South East Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is possible that if they did not do a first in first out they may have started using their own parts before running out of the supplied ones. after this long and with all records destroyed it is rather difficult to determine what happened or how many had or did not have something.
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wesk
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So is it safe to say the first 500-600 had the script?


I would reserve that opinion until more then 3 remote examples are available to support such a declaration. This mystery is till a mystery in the earliest research phase.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

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reddog
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Joined: Aug 31, 2006
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Location: Port Coquitlam BC Canada

PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Donk_316
My M38CDN has the Jeep script on the tub. It has no car # on the frame although there had been some damage to that corner at one time. Serial# F-100226 Date 3-31-52. There was some numbering bellow the drivers door but I was unable to get enough to make it legible. I am quite sure it is a true CDN as it had the old rusted light that shines on the differential on it. If I could find the car # that would be great although I hear there is no corresponding records of serial #s and car #s.
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pickle
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Location: Brandon, Manitoba Canada

PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello all:

and now there are four...reddog, thank you for chiming in....my serial is 10229. I am very interested to find out more about yours, in terms of where you found your CAR painted on the tub (albeit unreadable). do you have pictures that maybe some of us can help to read it?

Again, check the frame closely on the left rail for an inspector stamp similar to what was on the dataplate as I am told. Also look at the back of the plate that holds the data plates and serial number. Apparently, there is the chance that it might have something written in a grease pencil .

Also, do you and donk mind giving more information in terms of contract number, engine serial number, and any background information you may have as to where it was from or purchased from. I want to include it into my spreadsheet, which I will send in. I currently have approximately 100 M3CDN jeeps with partial information. I am more than happy to share any information that I have.

I think that wes and frank are right....we either are seeing a surplus of parts that were used to finish off the jeep tubs then were made by ford of canada. I highly suspect that the first 3-500 had this jeep on the tool box, but I wonder if it has something to do with the contract number. To find it on the M38 CDN makes it a little more rarer i think. Great stuff.

Mk
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Xamon
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My jeep is a high number, f-102010, the car was hard to see, it was lightly stamped the 8 in it was made using the three stamped twice. I had to scraped off paint to be able to read the whole thing. The panel for the dataplates is actually stamped on the back with the serial number, although that is almost illegible as it is not well done. Not sure who but someone used a power sander to remove the car numbers and other military markings. Not really helpful but there it is.
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