Joined: May 09, 2014 Posts: 83 Location: High desert Ca
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:39 pm Post subject: Douglas connectors.
M38A1 1953. Now that I'm on the backside on his jeep I'm starting to run into bad wiring. Mostly in the dash, engine compartment and the headlights. Oh I'll bet this a surprise!
Douglas connectors. Where does one go to buy these, in BULK? And the crimping tool that goes with it.
What I want to do is buy the connectors and make up the connections as needed. And also the number tabs, those could come in handy. Most of this harness is in OK shape but the some of the wires are bare. (That's a nowanno with 24 volts) Id like to buy a made up kit if they're available. If not I'll do what I need to do.
Joined: Aug 26, 2005 Posts: 510 Location: North Carolina
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:45 pm Post subject: CONNECTORS
SOME OF THE BIG VENDORS HAVE THEM TRY MIDWEST MILITARY (JOHN) IF HE DOESNT I RECOMMEND GIVING VINTAGE WIRING OF MAINE A BUZZ I AM SURE HE WILL HOOK YOU UP ALSO,
Joined: May 30, 2014 Posts: 3447 Location: Texas Hill Country
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:48 pm Post subject:
HI Dean,
Yes John at Midwest carries them, the guys in Maine, Saturn Surplus carries them in sets, and individually, plus just parts, and wire. I know Saturn also carries the aluminum wire markers.
Wander on over to the Photo Gallery and look up Wes' pages. He has several pages of info on the wiring, Douglas as well as Packard connectors, and the light switches.
Joined: Feb 20, 2007 Posts: 606 Location: Illinois
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:02 am Post subject:
Bad wiring is typical for vehicles ~60 yrs old, the insulation starts to get old and brittle and corrosion affects the exposed wiring. You can reuse the old Douglas connectors, might have to polish them up a little first. I use a vibratory tumbler to take off corrosion. The plastic barrels are usually ok but sometimes they too get brittle. The metal ends can be removed from the wiring with a little work and can be soldered back onto fresh wire without crimping. Remember to take the aluminum wiring number identifiers and reuse. One part that is indispensable are the little rubber grommets that waterproof the connection. But if that is all you have to buy, its not that bad. _________________ 1951 M38
You can get the crimp pins from Ameriline in Illinois. They also sell the complete prestolite rubber MS connectors that are current issue if you don't want to go Douglas. See the site below. I believe their minimum order 100 dollars if memory serves.
Joined: May 09, 2014 Posts: 83 Location: High desert Ca
Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:12 pm Post subject:
I have and it still doesn't justify $5 to $10 per connection and in the end, ending up with a half hacked undependable function. Let's face it, unless your end project is being judged in a competition for authenticity what are we looking to end up with? Dependable FUNCTION! I don't dive my jeeps nor do I worry about ever driving them into a swamp. (I live in a desert) however though when I and my wife drive out in the middle where man has never set foot, I want this thing operable. I've been watching a 151MUTT for months. The owner wants $25K for it. The thing is perfect, but he'll never drag $25K, no matter the loads of money he's dumped into it.
Douglas and Packard connectors are great things but, how many have we all pulled them apart and they're nonfunctional and the wire is shot and attempting to simulate a welder somewhere on the jeep?
For those that are interested in a function over design correctness, those that are interested in a hunting jeep over one that sits in a garage and gets rubbed all the time, and the only off roughest road driving it sees is a curb stone in a parking lot.
I have a friend that passed away, Butch Siegfried from Corona Ca. His son has his last project, a 151A2 and a M416 both perfectly restored.
What's it do? Nothing, just sits there in the shop. What was the point? His son knows if anything happens to them it would take a small fortune to bring it back. So I get back to my point. Unless you intend on having a project sit around doing nothing why would one want to pile dollars into one you don't want to drive and play in?
There's a guy here in town, again a perfectly restored M38, what's it do? It sits in his showroom with a rope around it.
I'm going to get mine up and going and not be afraid of a big rub mark down the side or a rock bruise on a tire. I'm going to use mine and depend on them.
Joined: May 30, 2014 Posts: 3447 Location: Texas Hill Country
Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:39 pm Post subject:
Well, you have hit on the one thing we all must decide, how we use them.
Some will choose show circuit prom queens,
some will choose parade and get together jeeps,
some will choose "motor pool" daily drivers,
some will choose some mixed version of the latter and a practical 12 volter,
and some will choose to take what they have, make everything dead-on reliable, and drive the fire out of them.
Each version takes a little different tack and budget, and each person gets out of them what they put into them.
In your case I think you are doing the right thing for what you want to do with her. I believe Wes and others would tell you you can get a reliable runner in 24 volt all original, but cost and maintenance effort would probably take away a lot of time you would use otherwise.
So, maybe you buy a straight up to date CJ harness and move on. Everything will be new, and state of the art. Just not 24 volt.
I think someone earlier said you could just buy brand new 14 gauge wire and new connectors from NAPA or somewhere and redo the whole thing yourself. That is the other option and still keep it 24 volt.
To each his own. However I find it very much without tact to speak down the nose at those that want something stock and original. Everyone has a place here that owns a M38, m38A1 or M170 weather they rope it off and stare at it or beat the living crap out it. It's their jeep and it's their choice and none of those choices at maintaining and operating a M38, M38A1 or M170 are bad choices, or dumb choices.
Rather then bash their plans for their jeeps try to channel your posts towards fixing and restoring to whatever level you are happy with and leave the others enjoy the level they have selected for their jeep. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: May 09, 2014 Posts: 83 Location: High desert Ca
Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:36 am Post subject:
Wes, I wasn't speaking down the nose without tact to anybody. I was rather miffed by the comment " look at what a reproduction harness cost."
Either way there's no bargain, not even close. But that said, how many of our friends have got into one of these things and found the electrical system in an atrocious condition? Rotting away, broken, missing, Bubba hacked. Just how good are the existing electrical systems? And the apparent ONLY replacement system is the vary same one that failed in the first place. And how many people buy a jeep to go out and have fun and have a novel thing and get into it and find this was way beyond bondo and a rattle can? Back to the wiring.
I have a suggestion that might solve the problem.
So you go out and purchase a 60 year old jeep and thru your knowledge you know the harness is junk without looking at it.
At this point you have a choice to make, do I want a working jeep or a trailer queen?
Wouldn't it be nice if you could choose either a period correct harness with all the correct connectors along with the hefty price, what $700 plus, OR choose a working harness with modern wire coverings and modern connectors for something around $180 or less? What would be the material cost in a new modern one, maybe $70 on the outside? How many of what would sell?
I'd thought of a new harness in mine but I just couldn't get past the $700 bucks of wire. If I had a choice there would been a new working harness in, hands down.
I think that this would be the overwhelming choice of most people that are into this.
I don't suppose there might be some kind of reason this hasn't occurred already?
Very confusing speech with a lot of contradictions built into it.
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I don't suppose there might be some kind of reason this hasn't occurred already?
If the cost of a harness is your issue and your jeep is not going to be a trailer queen then had you searched our web site for the many folks before you with the same dilemma the answer you would have arrived at is build a modern harness from modern hardware and press on. There is no new ground to cover here and the time spent in your posts knocking those (yes knocking!) who restore to a level that requires the amount of time and money you do not wish to expend is a waste of everyone's air time and patience.
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I was rather miffed by the comment " look at what a reproduction harness cost."
Why get miffed by simple presentation of an economic fact. The other fellow showed you why the individual components for a stock harness are so expensive.
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Either way there's no bargain
The bargain is in the eye of the beholder. If a $50 part meets your needs then by all means buy it. If the $300 part does not appeal to you then ignore and don't buy it. And don't spend time writing about the folks you describe as crazy or dumb because they prefer the $300 part. Go price a quality exact replacement harness for a 65 Chevelle, or 49 LaSalle. The folks restoring those who have decided on a quality, as from the factory restoration have a right to pursue that direction without the negative dialog pointed at them.
These are all negative comments and quips targeting the factory class resto folks which has nothing to do with your project's funding and use issues.
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has his last project, a 151A2 and a M416 both perfectly restored.
What's it do? Nothing, just sits there in the shop. What was the point? His son knows if anything happens to them it would take a small fortune to bring it back
Quote:
Unless you intend on having a project sit around doing nothing why would one want to pile dollars into one you don't want to drive and play in?
Quote:
I've been watching a 151MUTT for months. The owner wants $25K for it. The thing is perfect, but he'll never drag $25K, no matter the loads of money he's dumped into it.
I haven't heard a single negative comment from this group directed at your goals for your project.
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Just how good are the existing electrical systems? And the apparent ONLY replacement system is the vary same one that failed in the first place.
You have apparently overlooked something here. The existing waterproof military harness got this jeep from 1950 to 2014. A replacement just like it will get the jeep another 20 to 40 years of safe and reliable use. Had we been discussing a 1955 CJ5 then guess what? Yes, a 59 year old harness that got you here today and a new one just like it will get you another 20 to 40 years. Your choices are simple. Replacement $700 M38A1 harness (='s another 40 reliable years), a replacement $400 55 CJ5 harness (='s another 40 reliable years), a replacement $150 generic harness (='s another 40 reliable years), or a hand fabricated from modern materials harness for about ($150 in materials and 60 hours of your labor (='s another 40 reliable years). As you should now be able to see the result is the same for all 4 plans and reliability is the same. Just pic your path. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Feb 20, 2007 Posts: 606 Location: Illinois
Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:41 pm Post subject:
When I replaced the harness in my M38 with a reproduction harness it was relatively simple, straightforward installation including using Douglas connectors to hook up to existing military lights, gauges, fittings. If I had to bubba every fitting and fixture to accommodate a jury-rigged harness, I'd still be working on it. My time is worth something and there were a lot more things to do on the jeep, I had to keep going. All the materials used in the harness were first class quality and I think better quality than run-of-the-mill auto wire I see in auto parts stores. The Douglas fittings come in SO handy when testing circuits and replacing components and the repro harness came with aluminum circuit numbers - what a time saver! In the end, that harness will be around a lot longer than I will. And I drive my jeeps almost every day. No roped off hanger queens for me. _________________ 1951 M38
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