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willysmjeeps.com :: View topic - 1955 CJ5 Will Not Idle
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1955 CJ5 Will Not Idle
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Bexar
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Joined: Jul 10, 2016
Posts: 7
Location: South Texas

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:37 am    Post subject: 1955 CJ5 Will Not Idle Reply with quote

I have an idle problem with a 55 CJ5 in that it will not idle properly. I bought it a few months back and it has an F-134 engine rebuilt within the last 2 years. The idle was wrong when I got hold of it. I started with the carb and eventually replaced it as the throttle body was worn out. I have replaced the plugs, checked the ignition timing, points and disassembled & cleaned the PCV valve on the left side of the engine on the intake manifold. There was no hose attached to the PCV valve at first. I have run a hose from the connector on the top and front of the valvecover to the PCV valve. There is no connector on the air cleaner like all the pictures show. There is also not a connector on the dipstick/oilfiller tube on the left side of engine. There is a connector tube protruding from the cam chain cover on the front of the engine. I have a hose on it and have plugged it shut. There is a PCV valve on the right side of the engine too without anything attached to it and its ports are plugged off.

I have not performed a compression test and I have not checked the valves or verified if the crank and cam are properly setup although I have verified on 5 deg before TDC the distributor rotar is pointing into the #1 plug wire quadrant of the distributor cap. It does not point exactly at the #1 wire though.

Adjusting the carb has little effect on the idle although I can kill the engine if I lean it too much. I have the carb at 1-1/2 turns out so it should be close or rich. It runs ok with decent power and does not backfire or sputter and the engine runs smooth. But the exhaust sounds wrong and uneven.

So I'm stumped but before I remove the right sie of the engine to check the valves and crank/cam timing I wanted to see if the group has any ideas.

The Serial number on the vehicle ID tag is 57548.

I know Cobra99 in 2015 posted a similar question regarding the PCV system but wanted to start a new thread.


Thanks..Richard
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4x4M38
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard,
Just to be clear. You have a civilian CJ5 with a civvy motor, fuel pump,
and carb, and are running 12 volts?

In other words there is no way this is an M38A1?

Do you have any photos?
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Brian
1950 M38
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4x4M38
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Location: Texas Hill Country

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm having a problem with your description of a connector tube
on the timing gear cover.

You need the line from the air cleaner to the oil filler tube. That is how
air enters the crankcase which is pulled out through the valve cover
via the PCV valve and into the intake manifold.

Right now it sounds like you have a negative pressure situation in your crankcase kind of like putting your finger over the end of a straw and sucking on the other end.

Do you have any manuals?

Here's some info:
http://cj3b.info/Tech/PCV.html

Take care,
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Bexar
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Location: South Texas

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4x4M38 wrote:
Richard,
Just to be clear. You have a civilian CJ5 with a civvy motor, fuel pump,
and carb, and are running 12 volts?

In other words there is no way this is an M38A1?

Do you have any photos?


It is definitely a CJ5 and not a military machine. All of the pictures I have of the CJ5 in the Service Manual I bought from kaiserwillys.com match this machine with the exception of the PVC setup. It is 12V too. I have requested a photo gallery and will post pics when this becomes available,
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4x4M38
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. And there is no fitting on the oil filler tube or air cleaner?

The air cleaner fitting will be towards the back not the front
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Brian
1950 M38
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Bexar
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Location: South Texas

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4x4M38 wrote:
I'm having a problem with your description of a connector tube
on the timing gear cover.

You need the line from the air cleaner to the oil filler tube. That is how
air enters the crankcase which is pulled out through the valve cover
via the PCV valve and into the intake manifold.

Right now it sounds like you have a negative pressure situation in your crankcase kind of like putting your finger over the end of a straw and sucking on the other end.

Do you have any manuals?

Here's some info:
http://cj3b.info/Tech/PCV.html

Take care,


Thanks Brian, yes, all the pics and info I have come across show a tube on the air cleaner and the oil filler tube. This has neither although the oil filler tube appears to have been replaced somewhere along. The tube does have a knockout on the side that looks factory.

I has the following tubes needing something connected to them:
- PCV valve on intake manifold
- Breather tube on front of valve cover
- Tube protruding from top left side of cam/crank gear cover

It looks to me like this was a transitional vehicle with 55 the first year the CJ5 was produced. It has the long battery box cover of a military vehicle still on the passenger side hood area but it has the wrapped front fenders. Its hard to tell what has been changed about it. It would seem like adding the tubes to the oil filler and air cleaner would take it back to the stock config partially but I need to digest the link you pointed me at for how to connect the PCV valve on the intake manifold.

The tube on the crank/cam cover throws me too. I find that in none of my literature or online.
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4x4M38
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard,
Here is some info on the CJ5 pcv install.

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10055&highlight=cj5+pcv

From what I can find you should have a tube off the oil filler tube.
At least one.
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Brian
1950 M38
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4x4M38
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buried in that post is a pic of the right side of an F134.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wj2FhFddTWjAHaEepTJ0QC8h2YV6gNaZug/view?pref=2&pli=1

You can see the hose off the oil filler going to the air cleaner, along with
The steel line from the intake below the carb that routes around the front of the engine and ties into a tee at the pcv valve.
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Brian
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4x4M38
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the piecemeal posts but I'm replying on my iPhone and can't multi task easily.

Does your timing cover look anything like this one and is the line
you are talking about that isn't connected is shown here as a flexible
line attached to a fitting?

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=8588&highlight=f134+timing+cover
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Bexar
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4x4M38 wrote:
Sorry for the piecemeal posts but I'm replying on my iPhone and can't multi task easily.

Does your timing cover look anything like this one and is the line
you are talking about that isn't connected is shown here as a flexible
line attached to a fitting?

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=8588&highlight=f134+timing+cover


Yes! That is the timing cover exactly. And I can see from the pics the connector on it is supposed to connect to the missing oil filter. I don't see the oil filter in the service manual so it must be aftermarket as this timing gear cover must be.

Looking at the links you have sent me I would say my PCV valve is screwed into the wrong port and the pipe connecting it to the intake manifold is missing. It needs to be moved to the driver side of the engine, connected to the cover there, and then piped over to the intake manifold.

The missing ports on the oil filler tube and air cleaner is a mystery still, as is the valve cover port.

This is a lot of help...Thanks
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4x4M38
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to get us some photos in a hurry. If what you told me
about that timing cover is what I understand, not only do you not
have an oil filter but little or no lubrication to the timing gears.
That's what that hose does that goes from the filter to the timing cover.

As far as the pcv circuit I agree. Do you have a combination fuel
and vacuum pump? If so, you will need a tee from the pcv valve
line to the pump.

Again, photos will help us greatly.
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4x4M38
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard,
There looks to be an early and late ventilation set up that could
apply to your civvy F-134.

You could obtain an M38A1 oil filler tube that has two nozzles.
One goes to the air cleaner and the other goes to the valve cover.

Hopefully once we get your crankcase vent system lined out we can
address your bad idle. I do think one is germaine to the other.
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Bexar
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy smokes! I'm not driving it but don't know when that filter was removed either....and will get photos posted when I'm given a gallery.

The fuel pump looks like it is only a fuel pump with the gas line in one side and out the other.
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4x4M38
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wes hooked you up yesterday.

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10717
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Brian
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wesk
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Early M38A1 filler tubes had one breather port and later had two. Same goes with the CJ5. The early CJ5 uses the same breather plumbing as the 53 to 55 CJ3B. \

The early CJ5 had the PCV mounted on the SIDE valve cover and a tube went around the front of the engine & up to the pipe threaded hole below the carb.

Oil filters were a Factory option on the CJ's. The timing gear cover is stock. If she came from Willys without the optional oil filter then the inlet on the timing gear cover would have been plugged. The timing gears get plenty of oil from the spray fitting inside the cover.

Your best reference is a 55 Parts Catalog and a 55 Owner's Manual




Item 13 is the correct location for a 1955 CJ5 PCV valve.


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