Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:42 pm Post subject: Tubes or no tubes
A friend got new non-directional 7:00x16 tires and mounted them without tubes. A tubeless type valve stem has been installed in the wheel rim of course but otherwise military rims and tires. He has been very happy with the result. Why are we all using tubes? Is there a problem with what he has done?
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 1909 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:24 pm Post subject:
Interesting question!
What does the side of the tire say? Tube Type, or Tubeless?
My 7.00 x 16 NDCC's say Tube Type on the side. Not being a tire engineer, it never would occur to me to ignore that. _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
The closeness to tolerances are not as close on the tube type tire. Particularly bead rings so sealing suffers and they don't use as heavy a liner as the tubeless tires do which is also prone to light air seepage thru the porosity of the thin case liner. I believe the Army wanted tubes so they could be run real soft when needed for sand & etc. When you run these hard on sand at the required lower pressure they tend to break the bead loose on turns which on a tubeless leaves you with a flat tire but the tube type will usually pop right back in place. The stock wheels are welded assemblies and I believe those wheels meant for use with tube type tires weren't as carefully welded to insure they would hold air. If you don't like the fuss with tubes and you are lucky enough to have 5 wheels that hold air then by all means do it your way. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 1909 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:35 pm Post subject:
It seems to me that tires are a critical safety component and are purposely designed and marked one way or the other for a reason, probably related to safety and reliability. Could be mistaken about that.
If somebody had an accident related to tire failure after ignoring the intended design, I wonder what the law or the insurance company might say....and if that decision would be worth the price. To each his own. Something for lawyers to decide I suppose. In my book, driving today on our roads is challenging enough already without tempting fate with Bubba stuff. Ask any tire manufacturer if it's a good idea and see what they say. Then when your Facebook pals say you're good to go you can do it.
I won't be running tubeless in my Tube Type NDCC's any time soon, and I sincerely hope that I won't be anywhere near folks on the road who think they know better than the design engineers about what they can or cannot do with things that also affect my safety.
Just sayin' my 2 cents....
Good luck! _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Just my two cents. I built tires at the Uniroyal plant here in Wisconsin. And I have been around tons of folks that both run tubes in tubeless tires and run no tubes in tube type tires since I started working on my cars in 1960! Believe what you want. But you should really worry about things you can control. It's a lot easier on your blood pressure Ron! _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 1909 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:49 pm Post subject:
Thanks Wes! I couldn't agree more.
The older I get, I'm finally learning that I'm not really in control of much --- and never have been. I trust in the Lord. It's another level of Freedom.
I still try to help Him by not being too stoopid, but that presents new challenges every day.
Besides, unless I missed it, there's nothing in the M38 TM's or Universal Service Manual about doing it.... _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
Joined: Aug 22, 2012 Posts: 18 Location: Québec, P.Q., Canada
Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 7:47 am Post subject:
The m38 use larger wheels than the MB and these wheels have the same inner ridge as the tubeless wheels. I use All Terrain tubeless radial tires 215/85R16 which are the same size as the originals and I have no problem at 24 psi even though it's not rated for 4½" rim. Those radials are much more confortable, have more traction and resist aquaplaning; the bias military tire are extremely more dangerous than the modern radial. _________________ Gaétan
M-38 CDN CAR 51-30035
Good point Gaetan, As long as the wheel used has the raised safety retention bead and the wheel itself has quality welds that do not leak the Tubeless Rated Tire should have no problem. However a tire not designed/rated to be used tubeless suffers the shortfalls I mentioned above. From a legal standpoint it can be a disadvantage in an accident to be running Non-Tubeless designed/rated tires on a tubeless rated wheel or tubeless rated tires on a non-tubeless rated wheel.. The insurance business and legal system is often not our friend! _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Aug 22, 2012 Posts: 18 Location: Québec, P.Q., Canada
Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 1:11 pm Post subject:
You're right Wes. Maybe in Canada safety is more important than lawyers... (just kidding). Anyway, an antique jeep with original brakes should not run above 45 mph. And those rigid, bias, military tires are murder on a wet road or in the snow, and not very good off road either. My original rims (1951) at 4½" are narrower than the 5½" minimum recommended for my radial tires and there is no problem since 2012; I just add a few pounds of air after winter storage. Maybe someone should seal the center of the rim and use plenty of "soap" at installation to be safe. I would not use radial on rusted rims that cannot be sanded smooth; in that case, I would put tubes in the radials but I never drive long distance. _________________ Gaétan
M-38 CDN CAR 51-30035
Joined: Oct 02, 2014 Posts: 1909 Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County
Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 5:41 pm Post subject:
I see a possible pattern developing...it's a small sample size (BCA and Gaetan), but so far it's 100% for ignoring tire safety warnings on vintage jeeps in Canada.
Just an observation. Good luck! _________________ Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51
“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari
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