So far in that photo starting at the top coat I see red, white, gray, blue and OD. The area where the army hood numbers most likely are has not completed the sanding process. There may be three or four more layers starting at the visible OD and working towards the Willys primer. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Wes, did all M38's leave the Wiily's factory with Army Hood Numbers? If so, I could keeping sanding and find more markings (Army markings)? I stopped sanding once I got to the USAF numbers but I will sand more when I can. I was planning to sand on the tub next to reveal those markings.
If your M38 has Army Ordinance tags on the dash she came from Willys 2430 OD with white Army hood numbers. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Apr 17, 2005 Posts: 891 Location: New Hampshire
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject:
Wes then how come my hood does not have white army hood numbers. I have sanded throught the red paint, to two layers of blue paint which both had yellow numbers to green paint primer metal, no white hood numbers where on my hood. This is my theory and no one has to think the way I do. USAF ordered a few m38's blue, tub was painted on the assembly line blue but the hood fenders and grill where green, at the factory they got painted blue when the where mated to the tub. I believe they have the green becuase they where just pulled off the m38 line after they where already painted OD. I dont believe this probably happened in a large scale and we will probably never find any paper work to support this but finding two jeep painted the same way should be pretty convincing. If all m38 left the factory OD then all m38 replacement parts such as tubs would have left OD as well so the replacement tub idea still does not cover why mine and Richard is blue and no green. And if the jeep was stripped and repainted completly by the airforce, even behind the dash and the bottom side of the cowl then why didnt they do the hood as well?
The easiest answer is the hood was a replacement installed by the USAF then painted blue. The hoods that came from supply were plain OD 2430 without numbers. Most motor vehicle accidents damage the front clip. The hoods were notoriously weak and tended to collapse easily if a checky GI or Airman jumped up on it.
The theories here are endless. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Very possible when they're both from the northeast with slippery winter roads and many many AFB's in the new england area. In the 50's and early 60's there were more than a dozen AFB's in a 300 square mile area up there. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Apr 17, 2005 Posts: 891 Location: New Hampshire
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:31 am Post subject:
I might have found a 3rd m38 that has blue in places that I dont think the military would have repainted. Here is a picture where the circuit breakers go, you can still see the outline of the breakers. I am waiting on some more infromation on this jeep. The OD paint on it because the owner restored it using OD paint. He also send me a pic of the steering wheel, it looks like it has gotten one repaint in blue, the steering wheel has blue paint on it. I believe the overspray on the steering wheel adds to my conclusion that the jeep was blue from the factory, if they stripped the jeep down enough to paint where the circuit breakers go then wouldnt they have not painted the steering wheel???
my jeep underwent a massive rebuild in Korea from 55 to 56 with many of the assemblies dated and tagged prior to being shipped as MAP to Greece,
during restoration I found lots of the bolt on parts had strata blue paint and in some cases this was over metal with no OD underneath.
BUT.. the standard of the rebuild was such I believe they cleaned parts back to bare metal in some cases, and then resprayed it.
Also as all the parts that were starta blue were the bolt on bits the question arises..... just where did they come from. They could well have been blue 'on the shelf'.
Interestingly the Brit MVT magerzine 'Windscreen' ran an article about demobbed USAF jeeps (M38s ) a couple of issues ago. Even though this would have been the late 50s very early 60s it seems these were OD green from my investigations.
Next time I'm home and its light outside I'll go and look at my radiator stay rod, I left it 'as is' and I know it has OD over Blue, I'll check it again,
All the best,
Dave
You should check with the jeeps owner and see what the rest of paint layer history shows. It's obvious to me that the jeep was OD then oversprayed blue with the instrument cluster removed (look at the edge of the cluster opening that would have been covered by the cluster) and the painter oversprayed the inboard edge of the battery box. I'd also bet the circuit breakers were removed for the repaint or had been deleted by then.
Joined: Apr 17, 2005 Posts: 891 Location: New Hampshire
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:47 am Post subject:
he is supposed to be getting me more pics of the jeep. The OD overspray is from when he painted the jeep, he stated the jeep was blue when he bought it.
Joined: Apr 17, 2005 Posts: 891 Location: New Hampshire
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:44 am Post subject:
Ok hear are more pics of the 3rd blue m38 I have found. Wes if you look at where the circuit breakers where mounted you can tell they where there then removed and had blue paint under them before they where removed, you can still see the dirt outline of them. Here are pics of under the cowl of this jeep, notice same as mine. 1 jeep is an anomly, 2 jeeps is a interested statistic but 3 really should make you wonder if your theory is correct.
The photo above the two you just posted is the same circuit breaker mounting area. It's obvious in the above photo that the blue on the circuit breaker mounting area and the inboard side of the battery box was a over spray issue when the dash got painted blue and the instrument cluster wasn't installed. Only the small area inboard has the blue paint. It is also obvious that the painter removed the circuit breakers before the jeep was painted. By focusing very close in to the blue area only in your photos you have left all the surrounding OD 2430 out of the photo. That is very misleading but fortunately we have the more distant photo showing more of the area in my post above yours.
Take a close look at these USAF M38's. They were issued OD 2430 and eventually repainted by the USAF and several different arrangements of the Hood numbers are seen with the original Army ordnance contract.
In the above photo taken around 1954/55 in Italy you'll note the USA209xxxx number is not only still on the hood but the same number is repeated on the lower side panel with the USAF prefix. You'll also notice the blue has peeled off the 2430 OD on the right side of the hood. You'll also notice the blue overspray on the right front tire from repainting the wheel.
In this photo you can see the same registration number treatment and if you look closely to the right of the USAF the OD 2430 is showing through as it is on the hood plug plate for the power receptacle.
In this photo you can still see the remnants of the ASA hood number that was repainted on the lower side panel with USAF above it. You'll also see the new style USAF vehicle registration number on the hood in yellow. You'll also note the left front inner fender, outboard front edge of the left front fender and the left frame rail still has OD 2430 showing. Also if you look just to the left of the taller Lt's right shoulder through the jeep's windshield you'll see the rear end of the 1955 Chevy.
I am still convinced you guys have set of three ex-USAF jeeps that are 54 years (Half a century) old and only God knows how many times they were painted and weather the tubs and front tin are original from Willys or new assemblies ordered in by the USAF to use as replacements parts for parts damaged beyond reasonabl repairability by accidents on your New England ice and snow covered roads in the winter.
What I do know and accept is that in 1948 the US Army became the primary contractor for all wheeled tactical vehicles for all services. The M38 contracts we know of have no specification for any paint other than OD 2430. I believe your M38's all fall in one of the standard contract numbers based on your serial plates. I have not seen anyone produce a data plate with a USAF contract number for a M38. The personal testimony we have from Willys Toledo employess indicate that different colors on the M series jeep assembly line didn't start until M38A1's were in production. The only reference to any USAF Strata Blue spec is in the drawings for the late replacement spare wheels and I believe that spec was dated post 1952. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Apr 17, 2005 Posts: 891 Location: New Hampshire
Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 8:10 pm Post subject:
Might have found another blue m38. This is the one that is posted on willys tech. My hood number is USAF N-1346 and a DOD of 2/52 His is a 6/51 Here is the email he sent me.
Bill , my m38 is an original air force strata blue painted over red
oxide
primer , it was later painted olive drab, when I got the jeep some 8or
9
years ago, it was then that I found the original paint and confirmed it
by
checking up under the dash, the serial no on the hood is N 1466
with
U S A F above it, hope this info is helpfull
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