Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:26 pm Post subject: Bell Housing identification help?
Please indulge this 2A owner a question My apologies, but my searches here have found a lot of answered questions, but broken photo links... a picture is worth a thousand words and all-
Have a genset engine, RMC105103, that is going to do temp service in my 2a while I rebuild its engine. The RMC has the late flange with the extra 6 bolts.
Picked up this bell housing in a parts deal and am trying to identify it. It has a vented two bolt inspection cover on it, but there are six threaded holes around the bell opening, and the drain is threaded, though the plug is missing. There is a healthy amount of ODG paint remaining.
The inspection cover hole and drain are saying sealed late bell, but I thought the late bell housing also accommodated the extra bolts of the block rear flange? Any help appreciated.
I saw that pic regarding the bolt locations, but it's from the cover side (which I don't have) so I couldn't see the inspection port, etc... I dont believe the genset cover is anywhere close to correct-
I guess I was expecting the extra 6 bolts to thread into something more substantial than the cover, lol. I can't currently test fit as the block is on a stand.
Thanks for the quick reply on the sealed bell, just have to sort out the starter and ring gear (and the cover).
Joined: May 30, 2014 Posts: 3447 Location: Texas Hill Country
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:49 pm Post subject:
Hi Mike,
The extra bolts go through the rear plate into the block.
There are 11 holes in the bell housing including the hole for the
stay cable and two 1/2" holes for the starter.
I don't think i'm hijacking my own thread, its original purpose being met, lol... but you asked
The plate that was in the genset appears to be an early plate... it lacks the additional holes and the starter hole does not line up with the bell housing
My goal here is to connect the RMC to a rebuilt T90/D18 I already have, and swap all three as a unit... the apparent fact that the bell housing I picked up is m38 specific is serendipity of a sort. That said, since I need to source some parts anyway, if possible I want to find m38 stuff if I can (head, rear plate, etc) so if I move it down the road later its more complete and less salad.
You will need this Large Frame Starter with that bell:
^v are MCH-6203, -6207 or -6215. 12V is MDU-7004
You will aslo need a 129 tooth flywheel.
ON the other hand! You can just use your old CJ2A bell with the new block. The only real issue is access to the small timing window on the old bell adapter plate. This can be resolved by simply grinding a wee bit of meet off the flange on the rear of the engine. Then just use your original starter, flywheel and adapter plate and sell that bell to a m38 guy. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: May 30, 2014 Posts: 3447 Location: Texas Hill Country
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:10 pm Post subject:
Wes,
Apparently not only do we both have that transition plate (mine is a spare,
not on my M38) but also the 804306 bell housing. You show 804304.
Any idea what the difference is?
That photo is not mine. I will assume if he says the number on bell itself 804304 is the casting number, 804306 is the final machined casting part number and 804812 is the complete bell housing assembly which includes the stud on the left side. I'll have to look at one of my Bells to confirm what number is on the casting. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Well, I didn't want to unnecessarily cloud the water... the current engine in my 2A is a kaiser supersonic block and head, which appears to have all 2A bolt ons. My goal is to pull E/Tr/TC as a unit and install same to minimize down time as the summer wanes. I'd like not to start sorting fitment issues on "down time" if possible. Right now I'm running and driving, so sourcing M38 parts to avoid more salad later is ok...
I currently have a large hole, closed nose starter MDM-6005 which I believe is technically an F head 12V (my 2A is 12V) but have been told is a sub for the MDU-7004 (and is noted on Wes' flywheel details)
The fly wheel out of the genset is 124T, but it's looking like I could pick up a 129T ring gear and gain the 1/2" in diameter difference.
I'm thinking late cover, inspection cover and ring gear and I'm good-
Seems you want to end up with a complete M38 powerplant package so down the road it has resale value as a M38 unit. So I'll assume your long range plan for your 2A includes another powerplant swap down the road as well.
The list of M38 peculiar powerplant parts will grow significantly if the above is true.
1-M38 head
2-M38 double groove pullies.
3-M38 armored oil sump.
4-Late M38 timing cover with timing marks.
5-M38/M38A1 transfer case with proper greaseable shifter lever pin/bolt & vent sys.
This list does not include the waterproof, 24V electrical & ignition components. Or the fording plumbing and water proof carb.
These changes were initiated at the factory on 52 CJ3A SN 30973 and later (eng sn 3J130859 & later) _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Thanks WesK, I'm actually somewhere in the middle between salad and as you describe.
I have a T90/D18 2a setup ready to drop in. In order to swap them in assembled to an engine and minimize down time, I need a bellhousing and associated parts to complete the mixed unit. Those that I HAVE to pick up anyway (Head/Bell/flywheel/starter to match, etc) I'd like to source as much M38 as possible in the hopes of making it less salad in the future.
After I rebuild the Kaiser block and original T90/D18 I'd be swapping them back in, removing the RMC from the bell forward, and shelving the associated T90/D18. IF I decide to move the RMC down the road it just seems easier to move a unit as close to complete as I can (since I have to buy parts anyway) rather than get bogged down trying to part out a running setup or move it on as a salad. I'm not going above and beyond to source 24V ignition parts, or M38 TCs, etc...
The RMC is basically a lifeboat to get me across, and is no more or less correct than the supersonic I have now. Longterm the plan will be to move the RMC down the road to an M38 guy...unless I open the Kaiser and find who knows what...
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My apologies, but my searches here have found a lot of answered questions, but broken photo links... a picture is worth a thousand words and all-
