Joined: Jan 31, 2017 Posts: 72 Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:02 pm Post subject: T90 Transmission removal
I'm working on trying to remove the T90 transmission / transfer case from my 1952 M38 and ran into a problem. I'm using the Technical Manual and Ryan Millers reference guide to know what I'm doing so everyone knows. I'm at the point where I need to disconnect the clutch linkage in order to drop the transmission/transfer case and the TM steps are saying to 'remove the two bolts and lock washers securing the clutch linkage inspection cover...' in order to remove the bearing carrier spring. However, all that needs to be done after the power plant has been removed. Since I am not removing the motor, all that needs to be done before dropping the transmission/transfer case.
I'm a little hesitant to just start pulling cotter pins and such just in case I make something much harder to re-install. Can someone give me a little direction on how best to remove the clutch linkage without removing the motor? Calling me out on being too much of a baby is totally fine as well, I just like to know what I am doing before I start ripping things apart! I'll post some pictures of how my linkage looks to help out.
To clarify before answering.
What I understand you are saying is that you plan on leaving the engine in the vehicle and pulling the transmission. Is that correct?
If so you will need to support the engine at the rear as it is supported by the engine mounts in the front and the transmission mounts in the rear.
You can then unbolt the bell housing and remove the bell housing and transmission as a unit after disconnecting the clutch linkage and starter motor. That would be the basics.
Joined: Jan 31, 2017 Posts: 72 Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:44 pm Post subject:
Yes, that is correct. I am counting on leaving the motor in the jep while removing the transmission and transfer case. I understand that it is easier to pull everything but I don't have a hoist and am working in my driveway.
So the original question is how best to disconnect the clutch linkage the best way possible without removing the motor. I'm just worried that if I start pulling bolts and springs, it will be a nightmare to reassemble.
My best guess is that I should pull the two cotter pins (photo 2) to see if there is a way to disconnect it there without having to remove springs or cables.
1-TM 9-8012 assumes you will pull the entire powerplant (Eng, tranny, transfer). You said you will not pull engine. Do you plan on lying on your back with 250 lbs of tranny/transfer/crossmember on your chest? That's the tough way. A decent tranny jack that can be strapped to that huge assembly will make it much more manageable. So on pages 122 Para 116, 235 Para 200, and 238 Par 206:
a. remove the powerplant. Just skip this item. But place a scissor jack under the bell housing! Go to Para 116,page 122, Powerplant Removal and comply with each step that addresses any attaching parts for the tranny and transfer.Please note: Para 116 is 11 pages long!
b. remove the transfer assembly. If you insist on leaving the transfer and tranny bolted together then go to Par 200 on page 235 and remove everything listed except the parts that applying to separating the transfer from the tranny.
c. Remove the two bolts and lockwashers securing the clutch linkage inspection cover (fig 31) You have the later bell housing with 6 bolts in that cover. Remove it. Reach through the inspection hole and disconnect the clutch release bearing carrier spring from the carrier and the bracket on the clutch housing and remove the spring. Remove 4 bolts and lockwashers securing the transmission assembly to the clutch housing and remove the transmission by sliding straight back until the input shaft is clear of the housing.
That's all there is to it. Take my advice here and burn or print copies of all the applicable pages, staple them together, put them on a clip board and then read them over two or three times and line out non-applicable items. Then as you start the job check off each item as you comply with it. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Jan 31, 2017 Posts: 72 Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:16 am Post subject:
I have a stand under the bell housing and a floor jack under the cross member help lower it all when its finally ready to be pulled. Would rather not get crushed...
I feel like I went through everything under the 'power plant removal' section and did everything that was needed but I'll check again.
I was thinking that the tranny and transfer had to be pulled together due to way they link together and the lack of space of work with. I guess I assumed that because they say you should pull the whole powerplant out together instead of piece by piece?
And after reading your directions, I see where I misunderstood the manual regarding the order/how to disconnect the linkage. Stupid mistake... Thanks for clarifying that up. The tranny and transfer will be out in the morning now.
Joined: May 14, 2009 Posts: 972 Location: South Dakota
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:46 am Post subject:
What equipment are you using? Do you have a transmission jack? In a driveway situation, be careful. That complete unit is heavier than you think and going back in, you will need a jack that can articulate front to back to line up splines and inputs. Make yourself some allignment pins To help guide things together. Lots to learn. John
Joined: May 30, 2014 Posts: 3447 Location: Texas Hill Country
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:34 am Post subject:
I did nearly the same thing except I left the bellhousing attached to the
tranny, and I used an engine hoist from up top. I only had to disconnect
the clevis pin from the clutch cable. I also removed the cross shaft for replacement as the holes were really egg shaped.
By leaving the bell housing on the engine you will have a little more room
underneath than I did, but as Wes and others' caution, be careful!
That it a heavy hunk of iron that can mash and mangle.
Also. The housings are cast iron. Do not drop them. They will
crack or break.
Joined: Feb 20, 2007 Posts: 606 Location: Illinois
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:11 am Post subject:
In my opinion, its one heck of a lot easier to remove the engine, trans and transfer as one unit. If you check around, some auto parts places or tool rental places will loan or rent you a hoist - and you will literally only need it for minutes. If you go that route, removing the whole power plant is a stand up job, very little crawling under the vehicle and you're not lifting or juggling any weight under the vehicle. Also, once the power plant is out, you can move the jeep around, nothing is being braced from below. And you don't have to struggle to lift the trans back into place and reattach it from below. _________________ 1951 M38
Joined: Jan 31, 2017 Posts: 72 Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:14 am Post subject:
As of now, I'm only using jack stands, a floor jack and a high lift jack to all the lifting/supporting. All the videos I have seen made it look like the tranny and transfer didn't weigh too much so I wasn't expecting 250lbs or so.
I have been a little hesitant to pull the motor as well as the only thing I need to do with it is replace the oil pan gasket and my driveway is crazy sloped right in front of my jep. I guess I could look into rigging up a system to let me roll the hoist and powerplant into my garage without trying to roll away.
I'll take a look at other options today once I'm back with my jep.
The simplist way is to put the jeep in the garage, using a cherry picker (rentable) or a chain hoist (Rentable) lift the power plant out. Now roll the jeep outside for storage. Now remove the transfer, tranny and bell housing as an assembly from the engine. Leave it sit on the floor or a small box/table. Now mount the engine to an engine stand (Rentable) (Can buy new for less than $40). If you pick up two engine stands for $80 you can lift the tranny/transfer/Bell assy with the picker/chain hoist and bolt the bell housing to the second engine stand and have a convenient place to disassemble the assembly. If you rented the Cherry picker or chain hoist haul it back to the rental shop. With your engine on the engine stand you can rotate it 360 degrees for ease of access and get started on cleaning the engine up, give her a good inspection and order what parts you will need for it. Now settle in on your tranny/transfer repairs. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Jan 31, 2017 Posts: 72 Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:11 pm Post subject:
Alright, long story short, the tranny is still in the jep. I went through everything above, as well as both books and everything is disconnected/removed as far as I can tell. I can pull the tranny away from the bell housing 1.5" - 2" but then it seemshould to hit something solid and will not move anymore. With my jack set up, I can easily roll the tranny back and forth but not any past 1.5" - 2".
What could that be? There is not a single thing on the outside of the tranny or transfer holding it back, it isn't hitting the frame or tub anywhere. To my buddy and myself, it feels like there is something in the bell housing getting caught up. I did completely remove the clutch release bearing spring from the housing.
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