Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:41 am Post subject: No Oil Pressure on Start Up, Advice Needed- Oil Plug
Wes:
Looking up into the connection for the oil sump arm, the threaded hole that you see in the attached photo, goes into the channel that the oil sump attaches to, that goes to the oil pump. I am assuming that I need to put a 3/8 plug in this. With this open, I do not think the oil can be drawn into the oil pump. Is this why I am not getting oil pressure?
Joined: May 14, 2009 Posts: 971 Location: South Dakota
Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:34 am Post subject:
Those two plugs in the middle inside of your block were of two types. One was a square headed plug while the other is flat with a screwdriver slot. The reason is that the web on the crankshaft swings right over one of the two and will hit a square head type. If one is indeed not in the hole, you will not have any oil pressure at all. I hope you didn't run your engine much. If you starve it for oil it will destroy the bearings and could score the crank journals. A tip in starting a new engine is to pre-prime the oil gallery and oil pump. You spin the oil pump in a can of motor oil and then install it in the block with attention paid to being properly indexed with the camshaft and distributor. Then use a hand type oil can and back feed oil down into the side gallery from up top at the oil filter hose. Spin the engine over after priming with no spark plugs installed until you have oil pressure. Then re-install the plugs and fire it.
Wes and Brian, I shared this album in an invitation to your email as well. Please confirm you can see the photos. The last three are of the missing gallery port hole in the oil pan.
I am out of town, but tomorrow when I get back I will install a proper plug and see if I get oil pressure. I should be able to give an update then.
Thanks again to everyone for the responses, very appreciated!
I resolved your photo posting problem by simplifying the process. I just opened your own photo album here on our web site. I downloaded your photos from your web site and loaded them here.
Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:16 am Post subject: No Oil Pressure on Start Up, Advice Needed - Reply
Wes:
Thanks for setting up my photo album and posting the photos. Your comments on the photos were very helpful. If I can find the gallery plugs locally, I will install them today, if not I will need to order. I am trying to figure out why the machine shop left these out when they did the rebuild. Very frustrating.
Your in-depth knowledge and willingness to help others is a great asset to this community. I really appreciate it!
They are an easy oversight when the engine is worked by a shop not familiar with the Willys L-134 & F-134. Any standard pipe plug of the correct thread size and thread pitch will work as long as you make sure that #7 lies flush in the hole. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:33 pm Post subject: No Oil Pressure on Start Up, Advice Needed-Rep;y
Good news I put in the missing oil gallery plug, primed the system, removed the pugs and spun the engine with the starter. Immediate oil pressure. Went ahead and started her up and have pressure between 35 and 50 PSI. The engine sounds great, this has been a long time in the works, I am very excited.
I wanted to continue this string and ask for advice as I am working back with the rebuild shop on concerns I am seeing. Since discovering the issue with the missing oil gallery plug, I have been concerned that when the machine shop did the first start up with no oil pressure, that there was damage to the engine. I was told they ran it for about an hour. I had the distributor in backward, so they could not get the timing right. When I brought in home to fix this, I discovered the oil issue. When I took it back for the second start up. I raised this concern, but the tech said he did not think it was an issue given the effectiveness of the break in oil,,, I was not convinced. Since the second start up I have been focused on the electrical rewire and transmission rebuild and have started to drive the vehicle the last couple of weeks. I noticed that the motor felt very under powered with a top speed of maybe 40 MPH. I checked compression on read 100/80/99/101, much lower than the "normal 135" I read in the manual. I took it back to the machine shop and they agreed the compression was low, so it is apparent to me that the first start up with not oil pressure caused damage. The shop said they need to talk to the owner and will get back to me later this week. My question is what should I be asking them to do to remedy this situation? I assume in general I should ask for all specifications to be brought up to tolerances, but are there specific actions I should ask for in this repair based on damage potential of not having oil pressure? Thanks for your advice!
The only proper course of action is a teardown & a thorough inspection of all moving parts. Pistons, rings, cylinder bores, crankshaft journals, crankshaft bearings, camshaft journals, camshaft bearing, lifter bodies, lifter bores, and all gear teeth specifically for excessive initial wear, scoring and burning/overheating.
For any engine shop to test run an engine for an hour with very low oil pressure and improperly timed is beyond industry standards!
Based on this shop's performance to date I would not trust them with any future repairs. I would suggest you make it easy on both you and the shop and demand a refund and take your engine elsewhere. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Thanks for the list Wes, very helpful as always. This has been a frustrating process, but I have learned a great deal.. Thanks for your advice. Yes perhaps I should push for a refund and start with a new shop. I am in Boise Idaho, has anyone had experience in my area?
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I put in the missing oil gallery plug, primed the system, removed the pugs and spun the engine with the starter. Immediate oil pressure. Went ahead and started her up and have pressure between 35 and 50 PSI. The engine sounds great, this has been a long time in the works, I am very excited.
