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Original frame color M38
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Kendall
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Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 270
Location: Wichita, KS

PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 6:49 pm    Post subject: Original frame color M38 Reply with quote

So I am working on my 1952 M38 Air Force jeep. I had to remove the tub to repair some rusted floor boards (I think this is the first time the tub has been removed in the history of this jeep). There was little to no paint on the frame cross-members but on the outside portion of the frame there were just signs of black paint base coat topped with strata blue. This confirms what Wes has always said (I believe) that the frames were painted black at the frame manufacturer (no primer) and then sent to the Willys factory where the tubs etc were installed and then sprayed with the top coat.
It looks like the parking brake drum and (at least) rear drive shaft were painted blue. Still too much grease and dirt on the rear differential to determine that color. Should the transmission and transfer case be black or blue? How about the engine?
Kendall
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1951 M38
1952 M38
1952 M38A1
1942 Dodge WC-55
1951 M100 trailer
1942 Ben Hur trailer
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dpcd67
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Posts: 157
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Engines and drive train would be green.
M38s were "primed" with 2470 same color as the top coat (now 34070). Frames black, but lots of overspray so all I see are green.
I know nothing about AF jeeps, but why would they paint the engines blue?
Can't help it; everything in my world is some shade of green.
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M38 23100 June 51
M38 34523 Sep 51
M606/CJ3B 1964 Kaiser 57348 118458
M37B1 1963
Willys MB 1944
Ford GPW 1942
Dodge WC63 1943
Dodge Power Wagon WM300 1967
Plymouth Barracuda, 1973, 340 4 barrel
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wesk
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M38's were painted at Willys with OD 2430. A thinned coat of OD2430 was used as primer 5 digit paint codes didn't exist yet in 1950 thru 1952. The Army dropped OD2430 in 55 for the new 5digit code 24086 and theur field repaints from then on were 24086. Willys/Kaiser stayed with OD2430 into the early 60's with the occasional sub assembly paint spec making the switch to 24086.

There is a remote possibility that some USAF contracted M38's may have had their OD2430 overpainted with USAF Strata Blue but their is no factory evidence of any M38's leaving with only USAF Strata Blue and no 2430 OD.

1952 was the beginning of the transition from the US Army Ordnance Command being sole procurement agency for all tactical vehicles for all services to an individual service procurement system.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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Kendall
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Location: Wichita, KS

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wes I know you are looking for proof from the factory to confirm if Air Force blue jeeps were painted before or after they left the factory, but here are some photos on the bottom of my tub that seems to strongly indicate this tub was definitely painted blue before it was installed on the frame. The circle of blue in the middle photo shows where the tub cushion was not properly fitted prior to installation. It is hard to tell what/if a base coat/primer was used. This M38 has a DoD of 3/52.
Kendall



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1952 M38
1952 M38A1
1942 Dodge WC-55
1951 M100 trailer
1942 Ben Hur trailer
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wesk
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have not found any evidence that supports the factory painting Strata Blue any production line M38's. We do have evidence that spare parts including tubs were eventually provided in the procurer's choice of colors. The strongest supported possibility for your tub would be it is a replacement tub from Willys or Kaiser after the production of M38's had ended.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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WillysMotors
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought we had determined that there were some 52's that were painted Strata blue from the start. If I re-find that data I will post it here.
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wesk
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Keith,

The only evidence I recall you posted about 5 or 6 years ago were a few parts blueprints which had dated changes on them that included changes to paint colors used for those individual parts.

Any chance a production BOM dated mid 1952 might have paint colors listed for use on the production line?
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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WillysMotors
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I worked all day today on a list Ryan sent me a very long time ago and will be scanning them for him tonight.

I also have a surprise for you, a step by step assembly process . I can't remember if it was MC or MD, but I will send you a link. It is very long.

I had no luck with over half of Ryan's list, so I will check his part numbers against the LOPN to see if they were "S.O." or "shown on" other drawings.
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WillysMotors
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wes, I sent you the Paint Bill of materials 1881 for the NAVY M38 to be painted Strata Blue at the factory. This is page 4 listing the body tub to be painted.

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wesk
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keith,

I haven't received anything at the web site email addy, or either one of my personal email addy's.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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WillysMotors
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should be soon.
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wesk
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like I spoke too soon. Got two download notices. one for 48 items and one for 52 items.

The 48 items were assembly procedures for the M38A1 in 1961.

I am waiting for the 52 items to download.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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WillysMotors
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should have received about 180 images. I non specific error from wetransfer, so sounds like half didn't send.

The MD frame drawing had some interesting comments like 2430 till the 54 changeover to OD, and to use Strata blue over the black primer for the front bumper bar on MD frames
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wesk
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The two transfer packages I downloaded were:
wetransfer-7417b3 included 52 items
wetransfer-8b6278 included 48 items
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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Ryan_Miller
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am getting to looking through the stuff, but it appears there is some evidence for Navy jeeps and Air Force Jeeps directed to be painted certain colors under specific contracts.

We should verify on suspected jeeps out there on what contract number they have on their data plates and original hood numbers if they have them.

The Navy contract number on the blue print for bumperette markings states DA-20-018-ORD-9196 dated 7/5/51. When that contract was actually fulfilled would probably be late 1951 or 1952, I don't see any more info than that so far. Without a copy of the actual contract it is difficult to tell.


That should be on the data plate for the Jeep.

Keith, I don't have that BOM page you posted, I tried to read it but it is too low resolution. Was that in with the stuff you sent?

Thanks for sending the data earlier!
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