serial number for state registration

[aslanperro]

For purpose of local state/DMV registration, what will be the appropriate "vin" number to use ?

- XXXXX (just the 5 digit serial number)
- MDXXXXX
- 7105XXXXX
- or doesn't matter and any of above is fine

thanks.

Anthony C

[cobra5]

I think its going to be up to what your DMV wants. I just registered mine a couple weeks ago and used the data plate serial number.
_________________
1951 M37 WOW, 1953 M37 WOW, 1954 M37 WOW, 1953 M38-A1, 1954 M38-A1, 1964 M151-A1, 1967 M151-A1, 1968 M151-A1, 1978 M151-A2, 1989 M35A2C, 1965 M416, 1966 M416, 1967 M416
MSgt, USAF Retired 1/84-10/05

[rgmutchler]

Instead of asking folks on this forum to guess, get the engine # and other numbers you have and call the Division of Motor Vehicles for your state and ask what is needed and if they use the engine # on old vehicles like a lot of states or if they issue a VIN or any number of combinations. It is also probably best to call the state agency that over sees vehicle titles and reg. rather than a local tax office.
_________________
R G Mutchler
M274A5
M-38 MC13312
http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=rgmutchler&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[RonD2]

Hi Anthony,
Usually, before registration, you need a Title. At least that's the way it works in my neck of the woods. Back in the day in California, the Title was also known as the "Pink Slip". Tip: don't race for pink slips. LOL

Are you saying you don't have a Title to your jeep?

If you do have a Title, what number is already on it? Because that's the number usually used for registration. And usually, it needs to be seen somewhere on the jeep.

If you don't have a Title, I'm pretty sure your local DMV office will tell you what knot-holes you need to navigate to get a Title, and then Registration (plate).

Pretty sure you'll have to pay some taxes and fees in there somewhere.

Good luck!
_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

[aslanperro]

Haha I don't have the jeep yet. I am asking the question ahead of time. I know different state have different process to get the vehicle to register.

I am just wondering what people pick to use as VIN number whatever the process is. So let say hypothetically, one doesn't have a title and the data plate or mfg plate has

MD XXXXX or
7105 XXXXX

would one just use 5-digit XXXXX alone or
include MDXXXXX or 7105XXXXX ?

Thanks.

--
Anthony

[RonD2]

Hey Anthony,
California DMV has to tell you how to Title and/or Register a vehicle, including which number they'll accept. You may not get to "pick" which number they want. It would be a waste of time for anybody here to give that advice. This goes for any State, not just California. Too many different laws.

In the long run, the only thing that matters, no matter which number gets used, is that you have a clean Title that proves you own the jeep.

I bet California DMV has a web-site for you to search for the basic information to get you started. Be prepared for them to send somebody to actually look at the jeep and see the number before they issue you any title or registration.

No need to tell you that buying a vehicle without a Title can be risky business, but I couldn't stop myself. LOL

I'm thinking you're a young man who never owned a vehicle before?

Good luck!
_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

[RonD2]

Hey Anthony,
I guess, if it were me, and I had a M38A1 that I wanted to Title and Register --- and the M38A1 had a bonafide data plate on it with the number MDXXXXX on it --- and the DMV gave me a choice --- then I'd pick MDXXXXX to Title and Register it with. But that's just me.

The "MD" in "MDXXXXX" is the Willys model designation for the M38A1 and positively identifies it as a M38A1. The "MD" is part of the serial number "MDXXXXX". If you left "MD" off it would be just a meaningless (and misleading) random number.

Does this answer your question?

Does this jeep actually have both MDXXXXX and 7105 XXXXX data plates on it?
_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

[aslanperro]

Ron

totally thank you for the safe and sound advice. I am cautious person myself too. And with classic vehicles with modern registration system, even a titled vehicle it may not have been title and registered properly by previous owner(s). Assuming with good intention from previous owners, I can see it one vehicle be titled with just only 5-digit and another with "MDxxxxx". There is probably nothing wrong with either. But I thought be interesting to know what people would use assuming if they can choose.

I noticed in your signature you have one with unknown serial. So what did you do in that case to register? Or maybe nothing ?

thank you all again.

Anthony

[RonD2]

Hey Anthony,
Sharp eye. No, it wasn't nothing. It's a long story. Ready? Yes, I live in South Carolina (a state that requires a Title for Registration) and bought my 1951 M38 in Georgia, right next door. Georgia law doesn't issue title for any vehicle older than 1963, but will register them on the road. Go figure. This M38 was legally registered by the Georgia resident owner with a Georgia license plate and was on the road when I bought it. I bought it from him with a Bill of Sale (a legal document in Georgia and South Carolina).

To further complicate things, the previous Georgia owner had succeeded in registering it in Georgia with a MDXXXXX serial number on the registration (obviously wrong). Notice I said "MD" --- the jeep is a M38 (a Willys MC). And the body, that the previous owner had done a lot of work on, had an original Patent Plate behind the passenger seat with a MDXXXXX serial number on it (I still have the plate today). The dash plate was a blank repop. When I asked him about this discrepancy he told me the Patent Plate came with the tub (only) that he bought from somewhere out of state (without a title). Yes, thinking about walking away at this point.

Well, I drove and then bought the M38 anyway on a Bill of Sale and a copy of the Georgia Registration (to prove it was legally on the road in Georgia). Trailered it to South Carolina. Wasn't about to try and title it in SC as a bogus MDXXXXX (M38A1) when the jeep is obviously a M38. I contacted SC DMV, wrote them a letter explaining everything, including many photos of both M38's and M38A1's, and included the form requesting a VIN assignment. Can't get a Title without a VIN. After about a month they replied with a VIN number (17 digits in the modern format) with instructions to engrave it on a plate and attach it to the right front frame rail, then to call one of their roving inspectors to come look at it, which he did. No mention that the jeep had to be running for inspection at the time.

This inspector (a nice gentleman) came to my home. Had a copy of my letter and all the photos and paperwork. Looked at the jeep up and down, looked at my VIN plate and gave me the thumbs up. Then he asked me to show the lights and horn worked. Did that. Then he asked me to start it up for a short road test. Even 10 feet would do (working engine and brakes). At the time the jeep wasn't running because I was trashing the Solex carb and goofy fuel pump it came with in favor of the proper M38 carb and pump. Guess what? He wouldn't sign off on my paper work.

A month goes by and I get it running. I'm ready this time. Call the inspector. He retired. They send out another inspector, this time a nice lady. She does the same thing as the first inspector, right up until asking me to start it for a short 10-foot road test. She's getting her pen out to sign off on my paperwork to get a Title and me (like a fool) ask about the road test. She says she could tell (in so many words) that I wasn't trying to Title a piece of junk and this jeep was my life. She signed off on the paperwork. I started it anyway and drove it down the driveway and back just for grins. She explained that inspectors have quite a degree of latitude in these matters. Go figure.

So, I mail the paperwork she gave me (and some money) back to the DMV and three weeks later I had a Title in hand for a 1951 Willys MC M38 with a 17-digit South Carolina DMV assigned VIN number in the National Database. I take the Title to the local DMV office and walk out with a license plate (registration) for it the same day. After paying some more money of course.

Clean title and registration for a 1951 M38 that was likely built from parts by the previous owner, but she's all mine and legal. I wouldn't recommend it for everybody. Owned lots of vehicles in my life, but never did anything like that before. SCDMV and their inspectors were great about the whole thing. Personally, I think they've seen it all before and have pretty good b.s. detectors --- and they didn't smell any on me.

Probably more than you wanted to know, but a fair example of resurrecting loose parts across state lines into a Titled jeep.

I'm 65 now and this is the first jeep I ever owned. Five years after buying it, and knowing what I know now about them, I'd have been more patient. But it's a solid M38. I know. I've got the receipts to prove it.

Oh yeah, both the Patent Plate and the dash serial number plate on my M38 are quality re-pops --- but the serial number blocks are un-stamped blank, and that's ok with me. For a hood (U.S. Army) registration number, I appended the last 5 digits of my SCDMV VIN behind 209, making my hood number 20932721 which is totally and obviously bogus (as it should be), but turned out fairly appropriate for a 1951 M38.

Good luck!
_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

[wesk]

Anthony,

In this hobby the most preferred registration and title vehicle Identification Number is the original Willys issued 5 digit serial number. I did not say VIN. VIN's did not exist when these jeeps were built. The VIN was shoved down all our throats when the Feds decided to take over the policing of the automotive industry from the individual states. About this same time came the Feds standards for safety, emissions, etc. Some states still allow antique vehicles to be titled and registered using their correct period serialization number system. This usually happens where they have special tags for these vehicles.

Contacting your own DMV with your question is very good advice. But rather then pop your question here just contact any military vehicle club in your home state and querry them on known issues with title acquisition on old military vehicles in your state. This will make you much better prepared ti deal with your local DMV office.

Willys had many odd serialization systems over the years. The first involvement of Willys with the US Government involving Government procurement of military vehicles resulted in their first use of their custom model prefix for the Army Jeep. It was the MA in 1941. Stood for Military/Series A. Their most common WWII jeep was the MB ( Military/Series B) for the Army Spec G503. Then came the 1950 MC the Willys model prefix (Military/Series C) for the Army Contract model M38 and Type Spec G740. Meanwhile their Civilian line after WWII became CJ2A (Civilian Jeep/series 2A). For the civvy jeeps Willys started in 1951 using a serial prefix system IE the CJ3A 1951 became serial 451 GB1 1XXXX then in 1955 Willys went with a new prefix system IE CJ3B 1955 serial was 57348 1XXXX. 5 digit prefixes to M38A1 serials started showing up on the 1955 & up NEKAF M38A1's as 57144-XXXXX, 57148-XXXXX shows up in 1960 on M38A1's built for the Argentine Army. 7105-XXXXX started showing up on USMC Contract M38A1 in 1962 (on their patent plates) (their dash plates still used MDXXXXX). M38A1's built specifically for the Saudis and other middle eastern/African Armies had 71XX-XXXXX serials as well.

If you haven't noticed it yet you soon will. The more you try to dot your i's and cross your t's the longer the replies to your questions will be.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[aslanperro]

@Ron
Wow that's quite a process but you were able to go through and get the jeep registered and legal like you said. With these classics, they went through years of heavy usage, or years of neglect, or changes by multiple owners, most of them when it was found, they'll be missing data plate, patent plate or mis-match data. It's hassle to go through and it will be nice if it can be avoided.

@Wes
I don't mind long, detail answer, especially with these historic info for newbie like me. I have been reading up and have some idea but always appreciate the detail behind it.

Thanks.
_________________
Anthony
1963 M38A1

[kenperkins]

when I registered my M38 40 years or so in California they used the serial number on the dash and plate behind the seat...just 22936. but I did have a form 97 from the guberment.
_________________
'51 M38 #22936,
'51 M100 Dunbar
#01164782
'53 M100 Dunbar
M416b1
2- M762
MVPA #11788
MVCC LIFER