PLUG drain, front floor pan

[Mike_B]

Ron,

The lid seal on my M38 and A1 were both glued to the lid itself, not put into the drain gutter. That way any water could flow around the lid and down the hole onto the downspout/bracket and out the riser hole.

I just looked at both my Jeeps and they both have 3/4" holes in the tool box floor. The A1 has one hole close to the front edge of the box right under where your left knee would be if sitting in the seat. The M38 has two 3/4" holes, both tight against the side wall of the tub. The front hole is right tight in the corner and I almost didn't see it. It also has a hole with a grommet in the top of the box just in front of the radio power bracket which leads me to believe there was something passing through or into the tool box. All of these holes are punched, not drilled.

I have pictures I can email anyone that wants to see them.

Mike B
_________________
Mike B
1953 M38A1 Brush Truck
1952 M38
1951 M100 Trailer

[RonD2]

Mike,
I sure would like to see your photos. You should be able to click on the email me button to send them.

Yes, the hole in the top of the box is for a radio power cable. Pages 89 and 90 in the M38 Reference Guide. And my floor doesn't have the hole for that cable to pass out of and underneath the tool box!

I've got a set of electricians knock-out punches if the folks here can confirm the hole diameters and locations. I also need to punch the double-hole floor drains on my driver and passenger side floors as well. I have those dims from Wes' album. So it's beginning to look pretty strong that I have a replacement repaired or patched floor. At least it's solid.

And that photo from the TM on page 89 seems to show the seal glued to the lid as you said. I'll have to do that.

Thanks!

And my apologies to Ken because it looks like I hi-jacked his thread.
_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

[kenperkins]

I looked under my m38 and then this 1st picture of Wes' blue m38 and on the tool box floor right where the two body panels meet is a (?) drain hole. Also mine has a radio power lead so, it has a hole for the ground cable.
_________________
'51 M38 #22936,
'51 M100 Dunbar
#01164782
'53 M100 Dunbar
M416b1
2- M762
MVPA #11788
MVCC LIFER

[RonD2]

Thanks Ken!

These 3 photos came to me courtesy of Mike B with his permission to post them. They're from his M38.
The radio cable hole looks bigger to me, perhaps 1-inch, where the floor drain hole in the corner looks more like 3/4-inch.






_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

[Mike_B]

Ron, thanks for posting my pictures!

I just went out and checked the hole sizes and the front hole is 3/4" and the back one is 7/8". Both are punched holes, not drilled.

Mike B
_________________
Mike B
1953 M38A1 Brush Truck
1952 M38
1951 M100 Trailer

[RonD2]

Thanks Mike!
_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

[Jeff_Lee]

On my 1951 M38 I have the little "drain shoot" in the rear of the tool box, as shown in Ron's photo, which somewhat misaligns with the hole in the rear floor riser to create a little pocket where water could accumulate until it rose high enough to flow out the vertical drain hole. A classic spot I would have expected rust!
But alas, no rust out.

My Tub required a lot of floor panel and hat channel work to salvage. The lid of the tool box was peppered with rust perforation and required a new repop replacement. The top of the toolbox and the little depressed channel that the lid settles in, was also full of perforations, but salvageable with some work. The rear drain hole in the opening channel was open, but apparently held water in the channel rather than drain it away.

I think this piece of "hydraulic engineering" was overkill and wishful thinking from the Willys team. I can't know how it left the factory, but the way my tub currently sits, relative to level, is 'nose down'. So I think my rainwater collection stayed in the channel to rust holes in it, rather than find it's way out the the little drain shoot, to the hole in the raiser, to the ground below!

I think I will keep the little rubber stopper out of mine, just in case some water finally finds a way to escape the tool box rim!
Jeff
_________________
1951 M38 restoration project - Flightline Jeep MC 23923 DoD 6-51
1954 M-100 Trailer USMC Dunbar Kapple s/n M-750759 DoD 1-54
1947 Willys CJ2A - Harvest Green
1954 Ford F-100 Parts chaser - blueprinted Y-Block
Southeast Florida

[RonD2]

Thanks to this thread I'm getting ready to glue the weatherstrip seal to my tool box lid and thought I'd pop the hinge pins out so I can lay it flat on the bench to work.

My lid opens and closes freely but I can't persuade the pins to come out, even with lubricant. Searching the forum I came across a comment from long ago that the hinge pins might be peened to keep them in place? I can see no visible evidence of this, and I don't need the pins out so bad that I'd damage the hinges. I can install the seal on the lid in place if need be, just thought I could do a neater job on the bench.

Can anybody confirm if the hinge pins are supposed to be locked in place?
_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

[wesk]

I have never seen any production hinges that do not attempt to prevent the pin from falling out some way. In our jeeps the pins would fall out just from off road driving vibrations. At least 99.9% of all hinges that use a pivot hinge pin retain the pin somehow. Spot/Tack welding, peening, clips, cotter pins and so on. Unfortunately we have no written reference to toolbox door removal and installation procedures to look at for an answer. Any public survey today can only address what folks found on their particular jeep.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[RonD2]

Thanks Wes. That's all I was looking for --- what other owners have found on their M38 or M38A1. More curiosity than anything else.

I'm not surprised that the hinge pins would be fixed in place to prevent driving vibration walking them out --- it would also deter tool theft if the box has a padlock on it.

I didn't want to go overboard with a persuader for lack of asking the question.

Regards!
_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

[wesk]

The task gets even tougher when there isn't any visible evidence at which leg on which hinge half has the retention device.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[OKCM38CDN]

On my M-38A1 the hinge pins had a head on one end, and were tapered on the other. They had a bit of rust and had to be persuaded to come out. They are 1/8" diameter so use a small enough punch to do the job.

I think that the non moving part of the the hinge is just at the right size to keep the pins in place... When I replaced mine they went in easy then got harder as I drove them into the no moving part of the hinge...

Hope this helps...
_________________
Hal, KB1ZQ
TSGT, USAF (Ret)
1952 M-38 CDN CAR 52-31313
1952 M-100 Strick #104
1951 Willys Wagon (For Sale)
1954 Willys M38A1 201001205
Tornado Alley
Del City, OK

[Mike_B]

Ron,

I had to work at both of my Jeep lids to get them off...Kroil and a small punch finally did it for me. I did have to make a new pin for my M38 and found a Finish Nail worked great, it even has the swelled head to make a press fit...

Mike B
_________________
Mike B
1953 M38A1 Brush Truck
1952 M38
1951 M100 Trailer

[RonD2]

Thanks Hal and Mike!

I've let mine soak with PB Blaster and hit them fairly stout with a pin punch with no joy at all, zero movement. Next step might be some heat (then Freeze-Off), but really don't want to damage or deform anything. I may give it another shot, but like I said it's not essential to get the lid off. Am just trying to do a neat job mounting the seal to the lid. I'm going to use some 3M Super Black Weatherstrip sealer and heard it can turn into a sticky mess real quick, which is why I wanted to do it flat on the bench instead of mounted to the box top.

I'm glad to hear the pins are a tight fit but can be removed with patience. Thanks again.
_________________
Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

[WillysMotors]

The hinge pins are not manufactured to be straight. They have an intentional bow to them to provide resistance to backing out during vibration.
I gave my last set of NOS ones to Art Contoni.