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willysmjeeps.com :: View topic - Starter Switch Problem
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Starter Switch Problem

 
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OKCM38CDN
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Joined: Feb 17, 2012
Posts: 516
Location: Del City, OK

PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:42 pm    Post subject: Starter Switch Problem Reply with quote

I went to start the jeep and batteries were dead. Recharge the batteries and while that was going on did resistance tests on positive lead. With ignition off I still had .350 ohms to ground. Troubleshot to starter switch. Took it out and opened it up and well you know the rest of the story.

So has anyone found a rebuild kit for these? I have an email in to John @ MWM to see if he has any. Figure to ask the question before taking file and emery cloth to the contacts. One of the Phenolic spacers is burnt and should be replaced. Need to find some circuit board material for that...
_________________
Hal, KB1ZQ
TSGT, USAF (Ret)
1952 M-38 CDN CAR 52-31313
1952 M-100 Strick #104
1951 Willys Wagon (For Sale)
1954 Willys M38A1 (Restoration In Progress)
Tornado Alley
Del City, OK
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cobra5
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Joined: Mar 10, 2013
Posts: 89
Location: Stevensville, Montana

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the starter switch the same as the A1? Are you looking for the plunger? I tried John @ MWM and he told me he didn't have any. So I contacted Peter Debella and he had the plungers in stock. Hope this helps!
_________________
1951 M37 WOW, 1953 M37 WOW, 1954 M37 WOW, 1953 M38-A1, 1954 M38-A1, 1964 M151-A1, 1967 M151-A1, 1968 M151-A1, 1978 M151-A2, 1989 M35A2C, 1965 M416, 1966 M416, 1967 M416
MSgt, USAF Retired 1/84-10/05
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OKCM38CDN
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Joined: Feb 17, 2012
Posts: 516
Location: Del City, OK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got as switch from John, both contacts and plunger were a mess, changed it out and adjusted per the M-38 manual and all is good...
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Hal, KB1ZQ
TSGT, USAF (Ret)
1952 M-38 CDN CAR 52-31313
1952 M-100 Strick #104
1951 Willys Wagon (For Sale)
1954 Willys M38A1 (Restoration In Progress)
Tornado Alley
Del City, OK
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RICKG
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Joined: Aug 31, 2010
Posts: 1615
Location: SO IDAHO

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little late, but I made up a few spare insulators.
http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gallery/albums/album100/100_4505.sized.jpg
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keep 'em rollin'
RICKG MC 51986 DOD 01-52, '50 CJ3a
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whydahdvr
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Joined: Jul 18, 2008
Posts: 602
Location: Melrose, MA and Santa Fe, NM

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@OKCM38CDN:
I think I may have the same issue with the starter plunger on my M38. It's been getting harder and harder to start it. I suspect corrosion on the contacts or something with the plunger as that's what the symptoms indicate to me - repeated pressing of the starter foot button seems to improve the contact after it has been sitting a while. The jeep begins to start more easily after that. But it has been so offing humid and wet here in Massachusetts - and the jeep sits for long periods of time - that there may be other issues at play too, and it's taking a lot longer each time to get the strong electrical contact to start the motor.

Thanks!
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North Shore, MA
Santa Fe, NM
1942 GPW
1952 M38
1964 Apollo 5000 GT

De Opresso Liber
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OKCM38CDN
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Joined: Feb 17, 2012
Posts: 516
Location: Del City, OK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a NOS switch from John @ Midwest Military and fixed the problem right up. Works great now.

Trying to take the switch apart only goes so far. Special solder on the contacts...
_________________
Hal, KB1ZQ
TSGT, USAF (Ret)
1952 M-38 CDN CAR 52-31313
1952 M-100 Strick #104
1951 Willys Wagon (For Sale)
1954 Willys M38A1 (Restoration In Progress)
Tornado Alley
Del City, OK
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whydahdvr
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Joined: Jul 18, 2008
Posts: 602
Location: Melrose, MA and Santa Fe, NM

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. That was my plan as well. What's the adjustment you have to do that you mentioned?
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North Shore, MA
Santa Fe, NM
1942 GPW
1952 M38
1964 Apollo 5000 GT

De Opresso Liber
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wesk
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Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 15542
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should each confirm which starter (early AutoLite MBP4301UT, late AutoLite MCZ4001UT, late Delco X10483). The switches differ.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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OKCM38CDN
Member


Joined: Feb 17, 2012
Posts: 516
Location: Del City, OK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adjustment for the starter I found in TM 9-8012, Chapter 3, Section XI, Para 149c...

c. Adjustment. Loosen the jamnut (fig. 63) on the setbolt in
the drive pinion shifting yoke shifting lever. Depress the starter
pedal as far as possible. Adjust the setbolt in or out until the
starter switch makes a good contact, and tighten the jamnut.
Release the starter pedal, wait a few seconds, and try the pedal
again. If adjustment is correct, the starter will operate properly.

I realize this is the M-38 Manual, but it is exactly the same setup as my M-38A1 has. I made the adjustment per the manual and works like a charm.

Wes, I told John that I needed a starter switch for an M-38A1 after a discussion of the contacts, insulators and such and he sent me a switch. It is a little bit different in that the body of the switch appears to be molded plastic and the switch is newer, I think the NOS box was dated 1965. But it works as required and bolted right on with no modifications.[/b]
_________________
Hal, KB1ZQ
TSGT, USAF (Ret)
1952 M-38 CDN CAR 52-31313
1952 M-100 Strick #104
1951 Willys Wagon (For Sale)
1954 Willys M38A1 (Restoration In Progress)
Tornado Alley
Del City, OK
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wesk
Site Administrator
Site Administrator


Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 15542
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said above each member of this discussion should try to properly ID the model # of the starter they are discussing. For example, I already showed three possibilities above.

1 - Early M38 MBP4301UT

2 - Late M38, all M38A1 / M170 MCZ4001UT

3 - M38A1 / M170 Delco Remy X10488

Now Hal mentioned he used late M38/M38A1 switch and listed the switch adjustment in the M38 manual which if you read starting with the beginning of the Starter Chapter "Sect. 11 Starting System" Par 147 b. list the starter model as MCI-4001UT. If you look the same topic up in TM 9-8014 for the M38A1 "Sect. 11 Starting System" Par 154 b. It lists starter models Delco X10483 and Autolite MCI-4001UT but has no switch adjusting data. Now if you look at both the ORD 9 SNL G-740 dated SEP 55 it lists the three starters I listed in my last post
Quote:
early AutoLite MBP4301UT, late AutoLite MCZ4001UT, late Delco X10483
. If you look in the ORD 9 SNL G-758 dated Sep 56 for the M38A1/M170 it lists only the later two starters I listed in my last post
Quote:
AutoLite MCZ4001UT, late Delco X10483
. Not surprising the TM 9-1825B dated 1952 does not show either MCI-4001UT or MCZ-4001UT. The MCZ4001UT is found in it's own manual TM-9-2920-215-35.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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whydahdvr
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Joined: Jul 18, 2008
Posts: 602
Location: Melrose, MA and Santa Fe, NM

PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wes,
Without pulling the starter out, how do I ID which one I have? I poked around yesterday but couldn't read anything on the visible parts of the body of the starter.

I'm going to look at the manuals to see if I can find identifying marks on mine but seem to recall that the best way was the number of teeth on the starter motor.

UPDATE: I was able (blind eyes last night trying to ID it) see the data plate. I have a late Auto-Lite. MCZ4001UT.

Thanks all!
Josh
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North Shore, MA
Santa Fe, NM
1942 GPW
1952 M38
1964 Apollo 5000 GT

De Opresso Liber
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