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Wanted M38A1 metal handled Shovel
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M38 Engine Mounts
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Naugha
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Joined: Apr 01, 2020
Posts: 244
Location: Ocala, Florida

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:32 pm    Post subject: M38 Engine Mounts Reply with quote

The engine is ready to go back in.
These are the engine mounts that came with my M38.
I think most mounts for sale don't have a bottom plate.
What is going on? Different styles? Bubba?

Hold on...... just spotted a pair of ‘NOS’ M38 mounts that have the plate on the bottom with a piece of angle iron in the center. $40+$30 shipping + tax. Looks like I’m going to get out the HF mig and do a 5 cent mod.

Cool
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Don Alvarez
Retired HS Teacher
Central Florida
M38 Project


Last edited by Naugha on Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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BBDE
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Joined: Mar 05, 2008
Posts: 73
Location: Berlin Germany

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MB/GPW and CJ's didn't have bottom plates on the mounts.

M38 and M38A1 had them for the lower radiator support rods for complete Powerplant changing, the Army did.

Frank
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Naugha
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Joined: Apr 01, 2020
Posts: 244
Location: Ocala, Florida

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaiser Willys sells a set of M38 ‘Front Motor Mount Insulators’ which it describes as just like OEM. They have the bottom plate. Kaiser also sell ‘shims’ that (I think) go under that plate designed to ‘level the engine’, which is new to me .... but then everything here is new to me.

The ‘M38 Mount’ ad I saw on FleaBay with the plate and two small sections of angle iron under the plate may actually be M38A1 mounts.

I will weld a plate of proper dimensions to the mount missing the plate then look up ‘Go Devil Engine Leveling with Shims’.

Confused
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Don Alvarez
Retired HS Teacher
Central Florida
M38 Project
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RonD2
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Joined: Oct 02, 2014
Posts: 1300
Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Don,
In your photo, the mount on the left is correct for M38. That bottom plate is to enclose the pocket to retain the radiator support rods (left and right).

The bottom plate on the mount isn't a "shim" to level the motor. There's nothing in the M38 ORD9, tech manuals, or Reference Guide about shims on the motor mounts or leveling the motor. I found nothing about motor mount shims in the CJ Service Manual either. It might maybe be a MB/GPW thing (hard to imagine that 1/16th-inch would matter)(and Wes says it don't if you search the topic).....for sure it's not M38.

Call K-W and ask them to point you at the tech manual page for the motor mount shims they sell. Bet they can't. I could make a mint betting on all the errors in their catalog. Laughing

I don't paint rubber. Not good for it. Just one of my things.

Howzit going with spark plugs?

Good luck!
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Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari



Last edited by RonD2 on Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
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RonD2
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw, I should mention that if you intend to use the lower radiator support rods in your motor mounts, you have to install them before (or at the same time) you bolt the motor in place. Can't put them in with a motor already mounted, the geometry doesn't work.
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Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

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Naugha
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Joined: Apr 01, 2020
Posts: 244
Location: Ocala, Florida

PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think K-W and other sources show two differently shaped M38 radiator support rods, left & right. Does that sound correct?

While we are here, lets take a look at my radiator. I had the core replaced last year without checking the obvious .... is it a M38 radiator? It looks like the pics I have seen..... M38 or not?





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Don Alvarez
Retired HS Teacher
Central Florida
M38 Project
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RonD2
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Joined: Oct 02, 2014
Posts: 1300
Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County

PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Don,
I'm not going to comment favorably to any question asking if what KW shows is correct for M38. Use any K-W catalog for M38 parts identification at your own risk. Besides being notoriously inaccurate, you're welcome to pay the super-inflated pricing.

The M38 ORD9, tech manuals, the Reference Guide, and this forum are your friends. Using them, it's easy to see that yes, the left and right lower radiator support rods are different. Probably because the left motor mount is closer to the radiator (and front of the truck) than the right side?

Your radiator looks M38 to me, the main tell-tale feature being the two lower brackets that capture the support rods. The only other radiator that has those pockets would be M38A1, but those radiators have big differences from M38. No mistaking the two.
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Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

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Naugha
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Joined: Apr 01, 2020
Posts: 244
Location: Ocala, Florida

PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I added a plate to the one mount so now it looks like the M38 mount.
Does using these old (possibly original) mounts ever lead to catastrophic driving events?


* K-W / FleaBay. I use pics and videos from several sources, looking for inconsistencies. I also read old posts where you and others engage in friendly banter. Teachers sometimes refer to wrong answers as 'non-examples'..... a concept evident in some of those posts.

"Billy. Your answer, diagram and calculations have provided us with an excellent non-example of the concept. Let's examine each of your errors to see how you and many others in the class went down the wrong road." Very Happy
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Don Alvarez
Retired HS Teacher
Central Florida
M38 Project
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RonD2
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Posts: 1300
Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County

PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, using old, decrepit, suspect condition or low quality motor mounts can lead to bad things, usually when you least expect it. The water pump fan chewing on the radiator comes to mind, but there are others, probably worse. Use your imagination. What bad can happen if the 650 pound motor isn't bolted down and can go where ever it wants? Shocked

As for repeatedly using a known source of bad information as an example of what not to do? A variation of the negative reinforcement strategy? Ok, Professor. Yes, a new crop of kids comes thru every year. But it also reminds me of the old adage of the definition of insanity ----> repeating the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome? That's a better lesson to teach? And banter with a sense of humor is a good thing in this hobby.

Yes, trust, but verify (everything). Five or nine times is better. Between bad and mis-labeled parts that vendors swear are good-to-go and even the tech manuals have errors (and I have pencil notes in the margins to remind me). But I'm not going to waste time marking up the KW catalog. Not enough pencils. And I discovered long ago they have nothing I need that can't be got elsewhere for usually considerably less. Fleabay is much better than KW in my experience. Laughing

Caveat Emptor!
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Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

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Naugha
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Posts: 244
Location: Ocala, Florida

PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don’t think I have those two support bars in my pile of parts. The drive’s side looks like two 90 degree bends with the second bend going into the mount. The passenger side has other stuff going on.

Is there a diagram on this or maybe just get some round stock and start tweaking?

The plug plan is on hold for now. I think it will work but did not want to alter my cables until checking out another path.

I bought a set of the ‘new production’ (reproduction?) M38 plugs that we are seeing show up from suppliers. They should be arriving soon. The supplier offers both ‘new production’ M38 and M38A1 plugs. Probably without the original markings which is OK but there is still a challenge.

How would one confirm that a ‘new production’ plug (probably made in China) has the proper specs? My guess is that by the time I need the plugs there will be some reliable reports. 🤷‍♂️

I really need to get the engine put back in..... it’s a motivational thing. Shocked
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Don Alvarez
Retired HS Teacher
Central Florida
M38 Project
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RonD2
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Location: South Carolina, Dorchester County

PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don,
There are several good illustrations of them in the manuals and Reference Guide. Did you look? I have a set of left and right radiator support rods and could measure them up with photos so you could "tweak" your own. Or, you could call John at MWM and order your set for $35 plus postage and be done with it in no time with better results. I know what I'd do. Better do it now or you'll be doing it later. Laughing

And while you're at it, have him include a new set of motor mounts! I understand frugal, but not cheap! Penny wise and pound foolish. How much do you already have invested in that motor? Want to wonder about the mounts going down the road?

As I already mentioned, you can't put the rods in if the motor is already mounted. They have to be inserted into the motor mounts when the motor is hung. You can leave the radiator ends dangling until you install the radiator later. The end bends are unique (directional) and they only go in one way. Retained by washers and cotter pins. You'll have to see it (have them in hand) to believe it.

I'd bet you go through many feet of round stock trying to get the bends and twists correct on your own. Good luck!

As for spark plugs, if you bought new production from John at MWM I'm pretty certain (I would be) that they meet "spec". Same for one or two other of our venerable military parts vendors (we know who they are). I'd also think he'd have no objection telling you where they were made. Do us a favor when you get them and tell us what part number is engraved on them.
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Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

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Naugha
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

👍 Thanks for the info.
I do see several ‘may as well’ things coming up.
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Don Alvarez
Retired HS Teacher
Central Florida
M38 Project
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RonD2
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, my apology if it seems I'm piling on Don with most if not all responses you get. No offense intended. It wasn't always that way here. I wish you'd get more responses to compare and contrast opinions and experiences, which is most of the entire purpose of the forum existing, and how everyone benefits --- but it sure looks like the number of active participants has dwindled to almost nothing over the past few months. I wonder where it's going sometimes, and how long it can last.

Maybe everyone is just out stocking the corn crib and reloading ammo. Important things first. Either that or shy? I sure hate to think Fakebook took over, but that's most likely it.

Nobody here but us dinosaurs......Shocked
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Ron D.
1951 M38 Unknown Serial Number
1951 M100 Dunbar Kapple 01169903 dod 5-51

“The only good sports car that America ever made was the Jeep."
--- Enzo Ferrari

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Naugha
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Joined: Apr 01, 2020
Posts: 244
Location: Ocala, Florida

PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Opinions from a newbie are of questionable value but that has never stopped me from running my flap.

The M38 is a rare bird as jeeps go. There may be only a few new M38 projects per year in the coming years and eventually the last barn find will be found.

If we were shooting the breeze about rock climbing and mud slinging in $40k Ultra-Jeeps with beer and gals ...... well, you may get a bigger crowd.

I’m here to figure out how to reassemble Humpty Dumpty before my wife tells me to go live at the barn with that Green Thing.
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Don Alvarez
Retired HS Teacher
Central Florida
M38 Project
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wesk
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Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 15627
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who is Billy??

Quote:
"Billy. Your answer, diagram and calculations have provided us with an excellent non-example of the concept. Let's examine each of your errors to see how you and many others in the class went down the wrong road." Very Happy


It's not uncommon for the web site old timers to ignore a post after it's basic question has been answered.

And yes the lazy folks have moved their jeep conversations to facebook where it's simple one stop shopping. But seems like 8 out of 10 answers come from the old web site.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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