Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:25 am Post subject: M38 Brake back plate
Hi all,
after 20 years (ish) one of my rear wheel oil seals failed (CR 13710) so it's pull the taper half sfatft time and fit some new brakes shoes etc.
This M38 has a bit of history, rebuilt in Korea in 1955 then shipped to Greece as a Miliatry Aid Program vehicle. I got it direct from a Greek Military yard, so no civvy ownership.
When I did the brakes 20 ish years ago I just went to my shed and used NOS US surplus stuff I had lying around and didn't spot it didn't have MB type brakes.
I now find it has M38/A1 brake back plate and brake shoes, was this a upgrade of some sort?
How do you tell a A1 rear axle from a MC rear axel just by looking at them?
I'm not sure what to look for for the fully floating A1 type axel, and don't have any A1 literature on the shelf,
Thanks, Dave. _________________ David Wigham
No this was not a common upgrade. No telling what the Greeks did when they ran out of MB brake parts.
If you really have A1 brakes then you'll need the A1 manuals to do a proper repair. If it turns out they are M38 axles/brakes simply download all the free M38 manuals. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Many thankds Wes,
I've been Googling images of axels till I'm quite confused. My TM 9-236 tells me the A1 axel is fully foalting but the MC axel is semi floating but when I look at explodeed images I can't see any difference.
I'm wondering if this has had an A1 axel fitted and I've ben trying to find info that shows the difference. I guess there must be different types of 44 axel?
The full floater rear axles used in WWII jeeps had the axle with an exposed flange that bolted to the hub. The later Model 44's were non-full floater and used a tapered axle shaft that engaged to the hub with a tapered key slot. The front axles remained full floaters thruout all the Willys/Kaiser M series jeeps.
Post photos of the outboard end of your rear axle and the backing plate. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Hi Wes,
I think there's a misprint in my TM 9-236.
I'll post some pics tomorrow, if the A1 and M38 rear axels are interchangable I'd bet it's simply had an A1 axel fitted at some point.
all the best,
Dave. _________________ David Wigham
Only in the sense That a complete axle/housing/brake assembly can be interchanged. Most of the individual brake parts are somewhat different. If you peruse the M38 & M38A1 parts and drive train manuals you will see the differences. Also the M38A1 had available an optional limited-slip axle assembly used in USMC versions.
In this illustration of rear axle assemblies the left is the WWII jeep full floating rear axle (Spicer 23-2) and the right is the post WWII Semi-floating rear axle (Spicer 44-2)
Here you can see differences between M38 & M38A1 spicer 44-2 brakes. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Hi Wes, it seems to be taking ages to process the picture I'm trying to uplaod.
From the digrams you posted above it's the botom diagram I have on my M38.
Thanks, Dave. _________________ David Wigham
I've given up trying to load a picture, but it's the bottom diagram so it looks like this M38 was rebuilt with M38/A1 axels front and back by the Military Aid Program. Guess they just had to knock out numbers.
Bart Nan Der Veen did a billiant article on these jeeps back in the 90s in Wheels and Track.
Wish I still had it.
All the best,
Dave. _________________ David Wigham
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