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willysmjeeps.com :: View topic - M38A1 Front Turn Signals
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M38A1 Front Turn Signals
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JayO
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Joined: Mar 08, 2018
Posts: 5
Location: London, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:18 pm    Post subject: M38A1 Front Turn Signals Reply with quote

Hello, I am new to the group. Thanks for allowing me into the group.
Restoring a 70 M38A1 and live in a urban centre. I would like to have some prominent front turn signals. I see some people have modified the front black out lights in the grill. I think I would prefer to preserve these and put two new front turn signals on the fender? The driving in our area is pretty crazy. Does anyone have any advice re turn signals (not comments around the crumby drivers) Thanks.
Jay Orchard
M38A1 60% restored.
London Ontario Canada
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wesk
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Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 16227
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The military has already added turn signals to their M series vehicles. Just follow the instructions based on which system you use and weather your jeep is stock 24V or modified to 12 V.

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album41&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php





There are many options for the lamps.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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BBDE
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Joined: Mar 05, 2008
Posts: 77
Location: Berlin Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jay,

what do you think about the "Canadian style" Front Turnsignal configuration?



You only have to take a front B.O. Marker light body, with the lense of a M151A1 front Turning light.

Or next good option for good visiual turn signals are these
"Berlin Brigade" style turn signals, installed on all wheeled Combat Vehicles in the late 50th- early 60th in Berlin Germany.
These are also visible from the front, and the backside, and brings a lot of more safety in traffic.


Old picture.
The brushguard is actually painted in olive.

There are many pictures to see this version on M38A1's, M37's, M34's, M35's and M151's (without A1).

These two versions are 100% military and not an civil add on.


Frank
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wesk
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Posts: 16227
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only the M38A1 CDN3 came from the factory with the added amber lens bullet lights on the fender.

The US Army in Europe ran into the turn signal issue around 1960. The first US Military approved MWO kit addressed this in 1963.


Note paragraph 1f.

This kit replaces the right rear all blackout light assembly with a second left rear service stop light assembly giving a red lens on both rear corners. ORD# 8378785.


Look at the second note below the parts list. The jeeps actually used this light assembly ORD# 8376368 with this kit.



The makeshift arrangement using the standard civvy style clearance lamp was not a HQ US Army approved modification.



The later Army Turn Signal upgrade used the small round yellow lens bullet lamps up front.


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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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BBDE
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Joined: Mar 05, 2008
Posts: 77
Location: Berlin Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Wes, you are right.

The "Berlin Brigade Style" Turnsignal's are civilian lamps.
But:
They were installed by order of the area commander and were purchased from a German manufactor called "Hella" and were not American manufactored lamps.
In 1961 all of the Trucks are applied with these Turn indicator lamps
at the front and the rear.
The lamps were installed by the Motorpool personal and the Trucks became also these "customized" brush guards for protection.

The manufactors part number was:
Hella 9EL 074 484-011
For example: https://cdn.daparto.de/0002/450/450_A980.jpg
These lamps can be purchased today by several brands.

All together, for me as an motor pool restorer, these civlian lamps are
an original ARMY Add on in that case of U.S. Army Berlin Brigade M38A1's
and M151 (without A1)

Sincerely yours
Frank
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wesk
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, however they were not HQ US Army approved. They were a simple locally procured and applied temporary solution to the problem that was permanently solved by MWO 9-2300-263-20 in August 1963 as clearly printed on page 1 par. 1f. By 1964 the M151A1 was sporting factory turn signals. The Dutch NEKAFS sported NEKAF installed turn signals also.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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dayboy42
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Joined: May 08, 2011
Posts: 98
Location: New England

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBDE (Frank),

Thanks for posting that's a really neat turn signal setup I haven't heard of.

Found a couple on eBay UK.

Best Regards,
Matt
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Matt, Truck 1/4 Ton 4x4, M-38 (G-740)
Willy's Model: MC
DOD April 1952
Ser. # 63326
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ROBCDN3
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Joined: Mar 22, 2014
Posts: 75
Location: Simcoe Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayO check your pm Rob cdn3
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dayboy42
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Joined: May 08, 2011
Posts: 98
Location: New England

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone who wants to get a pair of those HELLA turn signals you should look for:

HELLA 2BA 001.227-201 This part number will get you a complete light assembly.

Don't use HELLA 9EL 074 484-011 as this is only for one lense and not a complete light.

Hoping my mistake will help others... Surprised)

~ Matt
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Matt, Truck 1/4 Ton 4x4, M-38 (G-740)
Willy's Model: MC
DOD April 1952
Ser. # 63326
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mdainsd
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Joined: Oct 20, 2017
Posts: 444

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fascinating thread. I studied the MWO work order and I see what Wes called out as the large aluminum M spec turn signal housings (front) are called out.

i have never seen a Jeep equipped this way and wondered how it is done. Well the work order covers it. There is a pair of brackets to be fabricated, the drawing is in the work order.



And the picture above shows how it works on an A1!

I went out to my Jeep with one of those housing and yes the rear end of them goes just far enough into the blackout light hole that it could mount to the bracket...but God is it ugly up front! These two big bulbous things on the front of that handsome grille. i just can't do that to my M38s.

Any pictures of these monstrosities mounted like that?[/img]
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'52 Dodge M37, '42 GPW, '48 FrankenJeep CJ2A/M38, '50 CJV-35(U), '51 M38, '42 WC-57 Command Car, '44 WC-51 Weapons , (2) M1941 Sperry 60" Anti-Aircraft Searchlights, John Deere M-gator, '44 White M3A1 Scout Car
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wesk
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Posts: 16227
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Just like the rear red lens that are available in full red so are front full amber's out there but they are tough to find. It would be easier to get two red gama goat full lens and then replace the red lens with an amber lens.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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mdainsd
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Posts: 444

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive got a number of full ambers. They are showing up on that large online auction site. Was planning on using them on the M37, but went will full clears.

I just cant mount those to the front of my Jeeps. Reading the MWO they mention the M38A1 but not the M38. I get the feeling that a good number of the M38s didn't stay in service long. My '51 was civilian licensed in '55.

Since I don't care to show or have my vehicles judged, I am leaning towards adding the bullets to the front fenders and leaving the stock BO lights in their place.
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'52 Dodge M37, '42 GPW, '48 FrankenJeep CJ2A/M38, '50 CJV-35(U), '51 M38, '42 WC-57 Command Car, '44 WC-51 Weapons , (2) M1941 Sperry 60" Anti-Aircraft Searchlights, John Deere M-gator, '44 White M3A1 Scout Car
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DiegoC
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Joined: May 19, 2022
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 5:19 am    Post subject: Great MOD for adding front TURN and DAY RUNNING lights - 3D Reply with quote

Hello from Argentina my friends !!!
Today I will share with you my 3D printing work for adding DRL and Turn lights.

I started with these Acco covers only
I will use the clear lens as DRL and will modify the blackout lens for turning signal

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20220519_092529-jpg.120779/

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20220519_093117-jpg.120780/

Then you will need some dotted or triangle/piramid pattern acrylic

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20220519_093318-1-jpg.120781/

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20220519_093435-jpg.120782/

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20220519_093508-jpg.120783/

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20220519_093723-jpg.120784/

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20220519_093925-jpg.120785/

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20220519_093944-jpg.120786/

At this point you will need the 3D part that I designed with Fusion 360

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?attachments/1652968689649-png.120787/

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20220519_094042-jpg.120788/

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20220519_094116-jpg.120789/

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20220519_094156-jpg.120790/

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20220519_094223-jpg.120791/

Now you will need some low profile lights
I used a 6 white-led board for DRL and an amber led light for the turn signal

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20220519_094457-jpg.120792/

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20220519_094512-jpg.120793/

Now the new screws
I needed shorter screws than the originals.... and I just used 2 long screws for holding

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20220519_095403-jpg.120794/

Note that you will need to make some holes in the 3D part to bring the cables out.
I did not add the holes in the Fusion 3D design so that you can make them depending on the led lights/cables you use

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?attachments/20220519_095419-jpg.120795/

This is my jeep:

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?attachments/frente_-jpg.120797/

This is where I will place the lights:

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?attachments/frente-jpg.120796/

I you are interested in this mod and want the 3D part I will be more than happy to share with you the .stl file
I only will ask $5 to support my work and continue to invest time in new 3D parts for our jeeps Wink
Thanks for watching !!!

Diego.
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JeepDrivingRay
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Joined: May 09, 2022
Posts: 66
Location: Georgia USA

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dayboy42 wrote:
Anyone who wants to get a pair of those HELLA turn signals you should look for:

HELLA 2BA 001.227-201 This part number will get you a complete light assembly.

Don't use HELLA 9EL 074 484-011 as this is only for one lense and not a complete light.

Hoping my mistake will help others... Surprised)

~ Matt


Will these lenses fit the regular bo light body ?
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JeepDrivingRay
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Location: Georgia USA

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never mind
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