Joined: May 05, 2005 Posts: 105 Location: Del Rio, Texas
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject: Fording the M38
OK...I have posed this question to the group in the past , but did not get much response, so I though i would try again. Maybe I caught y'all on vacation.
One of the qualities which attracted me to the M38 was its ability to be driven underwater, at least for short periods of time. It is my understanding that all M38's were delivered from Willys with Fording capabilities. Was this somehow tested on every vehicle before it was delivered? Seems like this would be very timely and costly. If the vehicle was not tested from the factory was it then somehow tested by the unit which took delivery of the vehicle? Harold West has posted a great picture in the photo gallery of a CJV-35/U undergoing some kind of underwater fording test.
Am I crazy for wanting to do this with my M38! We all are painfully aware of the cost associated with restoring these great little jeeps, and I certainly am not immune, I have well over 15K invested in my M38. But this jeep was designed and engineered for just such a task, and for some crazy reason I really want to drive my M38 into the our local lake "Lake Amistad."
I have restored my M38 to basically as original as possible, all original 24 volt system, components etc. rebuilt engine, transmission, brakes, steering. I would say it is 90%+ original.
How bad can I total screw up this jeep if something goes wrong? BTW it runs perfectly right now, just like it is brand new. I use it as my daily driver around town. I am willing to even spend maybe up to $500.00 to repair any minor problems which may arise from fording this jeep, but if something major happens that might cost $3,000 - $4,000 I am much more like to not try this.
I know no one has a crystal ball, but what very minimum procedures should do and/or test before I consider attempting this maneuver?
Was there a manual which explicitly described the procedures and testing necessary before attempting to ford the M38?
Has anybody out there actually forded there M38 or any other vehicle for that matter? What was your experience?
FYI...the place where I am thinking of attempting this stunt is a paved road which has been inundated by the lake. So there will be no mud or strange entry or exit angles to deal with. Simply drive into the lake on a paved road at a very shallow angle until the water comes up over the hood, probably a distance of several hundred yards out into the lake.
What are y'all guys thoughts.
Thanks, _________________ Dan
1951 M38
Joined: Dec 02, 2006 Posts: 115 Location: Bloomfield, New Jersey
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject:
Mr. Foley: Are you!@#^ Nuts! You have one of the nicest M-38 jeeps I've seen in the photo gallery. Why would you want to take a chance like that? I try not to drive through puddles so that I don't get the tires wet on my jeep!!! But if you do decide to chance it, let your mother-in-law do it. This way it something goes wrong, it won't be a total loss!!
Joined: Apr 17, 2005 Posts: 891 Location: New Hampshire
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:54 pm Post subject:
When I was 16 I had an m151a1 without fording kit, she was pretty beat up and I am sure the connections all leaked. I would take in water up to the aircleaner inlet with no problems. When my m38 is finished I will have no problems doing it either.
Joined: May 05, 2005 Posts: 105 Location: Del Rio, Texas
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:02 pm Post subject:
Well it seems like the preliminary consensus so far is that I must be crazy! But personally I like Bill's take on the topic. If I have done my job well at restoring ALL of the M38's fording systems, including ventilation etc. then theoretically there should be no problem in driving this jeep into the water. I can't help but remember that this jeep was engineered to do this.
My question is still how can I know it the vehicle is ready for such an adventure?
Literally, step-by-step what procedures should I do and what results of each test should I look for before trying this maneuver?
I think I know many of the steps I should check, but I would like to hear y'alls thoughts, I really need your 2nd and 3rd and 4th opinions on this topic.
Joined: Jan 29, 2007 Posts: 22 Location: La Pampa, Patagonia, ARGENTINA
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:49 pm Post subject: Fording a restored M38?????????????
Just a thought...
Please remember that this is YOUR M38 and the bucks you invested in it...
The Army had thousands of them and the bucks appeared magically...
Think it over
Cheers _________________ ****************************************
Gaston
La Pampa, Patagonia, ARGENTINA
MVPA member# 17535
´62 Willys M38A1 and ´65 M100 plus some others... (All ex- Argentine Army)
****************************************
Dan,
"It's your dime"! If you want it then take it.
There are no test criteria printed anyplace. The photo you saw was not in a river or lake. It was in a very low driveway at the Willys plant. Deliberately filled with water and of a known distance and height.
The procedure is clearly explained in the operator's handbook. So I would say:
1-Ensure all components subject to damage from immersion have been properly asembled and installed and operate correctly.
2-Ensure all fording controls operate correctly.
3-Inspect all plumbing for security.
4-Remove items you do not wish to get wet. (seat cushions, jerry cans, tools and etc.)
5-Type up a checklist based on your manuals directions and cover it in plastic to waterproof it.
6-Connect one tow rope to your front shackles and one tow rope to your rear shackles. Roll them up seperately and tie a sealed plastic milk bottle to each of them. If you slip beneath the surly waves the bottles will help locate the ropes for the tow truck driver.
7-Add a length of rubber vent hose to both the front and rear axle housings and route them higher then the water level you expect.
8-Verify the water depth along the entire route using a boat and if necessary a stick or depth meter.
9-One last check to ensure everything is ready and the engine runs well.
10-Follow your checklist.
Keep in mind the Army had a very detailed list of tasks that must be performed when you exit the water.
1-Change and flush all liquids (gas, oil, gear oil, coolant and brake fluid.)
(liquids you drain that show serious water contamination will dictate a complete teardown of that component)
2-Clean and repack all bearings joints and knuckles.
3-Inspect all electrical items for water contamination. This means look inside of everything including distributor, electrical connectors. light ass and etc.emblies
4-Leave everything open for a sufficient time to ensure a complete drying out.
For some people this is a lot of fun. For others it is a big PITA and still for others it is a great source of entertainment to watch the other guy do it!
Joined: Apr 14, 2005 Posts: 196 Location: Van Buren, Arkansas
Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:43 am Post subject:
Wes' Number 6 is the most important, and I'd
add a Number 6-A: Remove your shoes and
seatbelt, and wear a Coast Guard Approved Personal
Flotation Device (PFD).
In my 21 years in the Coast Guard Auxiliary, I
found that a good PFD made body recovery much faster,
especially those lawyers we recovered from the river
25 miles from where they went under at Kerr Lake.
Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: wet ride
Dan i am 44 yrs old my 38 came to me when i was 5yrs old . my dad taught me to drive in it ,i got my license in it .I drove it to school ,I raised up in it .When i was a teen I forded it every time it came a lot of water .i have been in water to my head so high i had to touch the gas with to tip of my toes !! I have turned it off and swam to the hill to prove a point it could would start back. If you did it all right it will show you what it was made for .Heck its only water it will dry. ... oh dont forget to take off your cell phone !!!!!!! VIDEO IT !!!!!!!!
Twenty four years ago I learnt the incompressability of water when I drove a Land Rover off a landing craft and the over ramp drop dislodged the air snorkel. Very bent conrods that smashed the bottom out of the cylinders.
Still, our good Queen Bess paid for that one.
Our technique (as I remember) was ... gently off the ramp then floor it.
Not sure the old Willys will have enought oomth to bend the con rods but I wouldn't like to find out the hard way.
GOOD LOOK.
Dave
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Are you!@#^ Nuts! You have one of the nicest M-38 jeeps I've seen in the photo gallery. Why would you want to take a chance like that? I try not to drive through puddles so that I don't get the tires wet on my jeep!!! But if you do decide to chance it, let your mother-in-law do it. This way it something goes wrong, it won't be a total loss!! 
