Willys as a daily driver??

[JJ]

My first two questions of a long line of questions are:

1.) What is the average cost range for a drivable Willys M38 Jeep? <$5K?

2.) I want to make this Jeep a daily driver but have heard the top speed is around 40/50mph...Is this true? And, are their sufficient, reasonable priced, after market products to beef up the engine to be able to cruise at 65mph? If not, is there a substitute engine that is made for a Jeep to provide more power.

Thanks for the greetings I received. I look forward to all the knowledge I'm going to soke up.

Thanks,

James

[Jim]

Hello again, James,
We paid $7,500 for our Willys, which was said by the owner to
have come from the Kiowa Technical Institute in Oklahoma. It had
8,400 miles on it when we bought it. The inside of the instrument
cluster was very dusty, so I figroe that's about right. All I had to
do to make it drivable was change the spark plugs, shocks, and
add an anti-shimmy device to the front steering gear. Someday
I'll get that problem fixed.
I've had it up to 45 MPH, but the 50 horses under the hood are
screaming that that's all there is! If speed is your desire, I'd
recommend something else. Convoy speed is 45, even today.
Of course, if someone's shooting at you, more would be better.
We'll be in the Van Buren Veteran's Parade and also a display
at the High School on the 11th for their Veteran's Day event. That,
and poking around town and the countryside are enjoyable. A
slow-moving vehicle sign fitted to the center of the spare tire with
a wing-nut is advisable for highway use, but I'd never get on the
Interstate with ours. That's what the vehicle trailer is for.

Jim in Darkest Arkansas

[JJ]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated. I'm not looking for speed, but would like to have an engine in the Jeep that can be safely driven on the highway. Around the city as a daily driver, 40/45mph is just fine; I'm not a speed demon . I do, however, often take trips into the woods for backpacking trips, as well as travel to see family and friends and don't want to have to haul my Jeep somewhere to drive it.

I am more concerned with setting up my future Jeep as a daily, reliable, safe vehicle rather than historical restoration. I love the way the Jeeps look and want to have the appearance of a historically accurate Jeep, but have the ability to drive it everyday.

I hope I'm not embarrassing myself with this question, but surely there is an engine out there that can power the Jeep to a safe 65mph vehicle.

Feel free to correct me or bring me back down to earth!! That's why I joined this site and am asking questions.

Thanks again Jim. I checked out your Jeep and it's a beauty! Congrats, I hope to have one like that.

James

[whydahdvr]

JJ,
I used to live in Santa Fe and know that area. You're in a great place to play with one of these old jeeps! Wes and Ryan, and all the others, are far more expert on these vehicles than I am, but I wanted to share my recent experience.
I've always wanted one of the old flat-fender jeeps. After years of thinking about it and a lot of time spent talking to local friends that have WWII jeeps, and researching, I found one via the G503 site down in NJ.
The seller claimed to have bought, it with another one, from the estate of a Korean War vet who had died recently and who's kids didn't want the jeeps. He said they were daily drivers for the vet but that he was keeping one for himself (the nicest) and that he didn't know if the other had a repro tub on it or what the condition exactly was.
My plan was to buy one for enjoyment, driving around an island summer house, and participating locally in the occasional event. The jeep I purchased in July was far from being in running condition. It was still in good shape but whoever had been doing the mechanical work stopped at some point and just started slapping things together. In the end it needed a lot more work than I thought an than a mechanic I was referred to locally thought. Which added up to more expense for me, as well as time to get it running. But I travel a lot for work and the Army so that was my trade-off.
As Jim noted current Army convoy speed is still 45, unless you're in Iraq where we go a lot faster. I've gotten my jeep up to about 30 and it seems like it's flying and on the edge of control, but it's older technology than most of us are used to. As Wes and Ryan always ask me when I pester them with questions, advice, and recommendations it all depends on what you want to do with the jeep.
My restoration plan is to use in the summer and for fun but on local roads, not the highway. My concept is to have it be a field-maintained vehicle, so not picture or factory perfect and correct. If I went the factory-correct way I personally would become too obessesive and never use the jeep. That's me.
There are over-drives that I have heard of that can be added to these jeeps to get them to a higher speed. The second one that the seller I bought mine from kept had one added to it, a special gear lever on the steering column. I have no idea how well it handled at higher speeds on the highway. As several people I talked to pointed out, the existing brake lights are minimal at best, especially by today's standards, so it becomes a risk with other drivers not paying attention as opposed to you handling the vehicle. I added a second left-hand brake light on the right side to replace the black-out lights (which I kept to add back on at a later date if I decide to).
So, if you want a jeep to take on the highway, look at an old CJ and see about "militarizing" it as a compromise. Or go at a slower speed and enjoy the day. That's my two cents worth from my experience. I hope it helps.
-Josh Bagley

[wesk]

The early jeep were not designed to cruise the hoghways at 65 MPH.

The 60 HP L134 engine in the M38 will propel the M38 to 55 when all is in good running order. With an overdrive added to the tranny you can propel her to 65/70.

The key word I see in your post is SAFELY therein lies the difficulty. Propelling any vehicle to speeds in excess of it's original design limits is inherently dangerous. One must go further than just an engine upgrade. The two critical systems that will need upgrading is the old Ross steering and the small brakes and single chamber master cylinder.

Just review the modern Jeep suspension, steering and brake systems. When I say modern I am referring to 1972 and up.

It will take a lot of money and a lot of work to get a CJ2A, MB or M38 to those standards of performance. The better military jeep choice for a starting place for this type of performance is the M38A1 or the M170 with 72 HP and a little better steering but still the old Ross unit. But the A1 is easily modified to the include most of the design improvements found in the CJ after 1971.

Another option is the M151.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[JJ]

Josh and Wes,

Thanks for the reply. It looks like I'll be staying off the highway. Your responses drastically changed my idea I had in place. No problem though, I'll just have to alter my plan a little bit. I still want this Jeep as a daily driver, and I don't mind taking the back roads and spending more time driving to my destination than previously thought.

Another question if I may:

Is there a Jeep-restoration Bible I can begin to read? I want to learn about engine, tranny, suspension, body, etc...

Thanks

[wesk]

In addition to the basic civilian jeep service and parts manuals there is Moses Ludel's books:
The Jeep Bible
Jeep CJ 1946 to 1971 Rebuilder's Manual
Jeep CJ 1972 to 1986 Rebuilder's Manual

And the basic M38 manuals are the operator's & service manual TM 9-804 or TM 9-8012, and the M38 Engine & accessories Manual TM 9-1804A and the frame and running gear manual TM 9-1804B.

You can get a good basic manual set for military 1/4 ton jeeps from Military Media.com for $20 that covers the WWII MB/GPW,

Here is a very long but still incomplete M38 publications guide.

[skyjeep50]

My M38A1 tops out at about 55 mph indicated with engine at near top revs. The problem with not getting extra speed is not the engine but with the gearing. A overdrive unit can be added to the transmission and that helps some. To get a little extra speed my M38A1 has oversized tires, 7.50x16 instead of the 7.00x16, so I can usually keep up with traffic if I need to. But I don't take it out on highways unless I have to - I keep to the back roads. One consideration is safety. My M38A1 is stock military and does not have a roll bar or much beyond basic lap belts for keeping me in. An accident at any more than a crawl, well, I don't count on not being severly injured or killed. Not stopping me from enjoying the Jeep and taking it to work on nice days but the vehicle is not a daily driver in the modern sense. And I don't want to "use up" my Jeep with every day driving!