Installing Overdrive is a Bugger

Cacti_Ken · Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:22 pm Post subject: Installing Overdrive is a Bugger

Anyone have experience installing an overdrive unit?
I have one. It is more of a pain to take off than put on.
After the initial installation I crank her up with wheels off ground. Put the transmission in gear and overdrive in gear and let off the clutch gently. I hear some unusual noises. Like something loose in the unit. Shut her down and take the unit back off. Everything looks OK inside the unit. Guess I am not use to the extra noises. Cut another gasket and reinstall it. Start her back up. It won't shift this time. It is stuck in over drive. Didn't notice any unusal noise's though.
Take it back off. Inspect unit. All ok inside again. Cut another gasket. Will put in back in tomorrow hopefully.
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which model overdrive unit have you installed, i,e; WARN, SATURN, HUSKY, BORG WARNER...ETC? is it new or used or rebuilt? if you bought one off epay as used, beware!!! the roller bearing on the spider are prone to excessive wear when not maintained properly. and shifter pin could be siezed or bent in the case of my Warn 29 tooth O/D when I bought it used Embarassed

then called Herm "the overdrive guy". www.hermtheoverdriveguy.com. I had him rebuild it.

I installed the rebuilt Warn O/D in m170 last year. the bronze sychro has a tendency to get stuck upon installation. I cant remember the procedure. but, I heard a "clank" when I started to engage in reverse on overdrive . been smiling ever since..... Cool

best $ money spent. seriously would call him up to diagnose your issue. Herm will accommodate your troubleshooting over the phone . Very Happy

Cacti_Ken · Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:00 pm Post subject:

I got it from Herm. I believe it is the Saturn overdrive. I spoke with him concerning my problem. So I will try it again and see how it goes once more. I haven't messed anything up. I guess I am being too causious since I haven't done this type of installation before.
The first time I had it installed is when I heard a clinking sound. It was probably the oil trough scraping on the inner rotating part. I'll give it another try hopefully tomorrow.
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MODIFIED · Member Joined: Mar 28, 2008 Posts: 353 Location: BrOoKlYn

I think being overly cautious is a good thing for such an investment. yet, the installation procedure is pretty straight forward. also remember, the overdrive has a neutral position when configuring your o/d stick. you may need to bend it inward away from the dash with a torch in order to reach full engagement. otherwise, freespin..good luck...let us know what you think of the OD add on. tom

captw · Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:23 am Post subject: re: overdrive

I put a "rebuilt by Herm Tilford" front shift Warn OD in my M38CDN early last summer...other than a clearance issue with the tub floor(no doubt due to the body mounts being squashed down since they were originally installed), it went in fine, doesn't leak, and I only had to bend the shifter back away from the dash slightly...a few people had told me I was wasting my money installing an OD behind the L134, but I'm very, very pleased with the result...being able to split shifts while off road is handy, too!!....I should note that I drive this jeep regularly on trips of more than 150 miles one way on roads that have speed limits between 50 and 60 mph...Wilf
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Wilf Alexander
R.R.#1 Bailieboro, Ontario
Canada

1952 M38CDN F-100822 CAR 52-31153
1953 M100CDN 1104 CAR 53-71157
1953 M37CDN
M274A4
(2) 1945 Dodge D3/4 WP/APT

Cacti_Ken · Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:55 pm Post subject:

I got it back in for the last time and got it to shift this time. I was surprised by the gear noise when I shifted into Direct Drive. There was essentially no added noise when in OD position, but it did increase when in DD position. Anyway I figured all was ok and I took the vehicle to the hiway. I took off with the gear in the OD position. It was a smooth take off and proceeded into second. I noticed that I was doing over 35mph in second before I shifted to third. And before I knew it I was doing 55mph and there wasn't that screaming engine noise in my ears.

I was happy with the function of it on the test drive on the OD position. There is one thing that I am concerned with though.
I can't take off in DD position and shift into OD position. The gears won't mesh.
It appears that the input shaft in the transmiision does not stop rotating when I depress the clutch. I even put the Trans in neutral and try to shift into OD, but it grinds.
I have to come to a near complete stop before I can get the unit to engage in OD.
I took the Bell housing inspection plate off to view the clutch and throw out bearing. I noticed that I don't have any play in the clutch pedal before the yoke moves the bearing to contact the pressure plate fingers. They are probably only a few thousands of and inch between the bearing face and the fingers. I see the bearing moving slowly. If I lengthen the adjustment on the rod, then I don't have enough pedal to to depress the pressure plate to disengage the clutch disc.

I sure hate to drop the transmission and T/C to see what I need to do to remedy that. I already made adjustments on the linkage to get the shaft to stop when I depress the clutch pedal. It just barely stops rotating. I am out of adjustment.

1500 miles ago I had a clutch shop resurface pressure plate, test and inspect the pressure plate and disc before I installed them. The shop checked both of them and said there were ok to install. But now I'm thinking one of the two if not both have met their limit and are worn out. Dang it!
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Cacti_Ken · Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:29 pm Post subject:

Since my last post I am contemplating on replacing the clutch components. I am wondering, which would be the route to go. Remove the engine with clutch or drop the bell housing, transmission and T/C then go after the bell housing and clutch?
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wesk · Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:20 pm Post subject:

Ken,
Are you sure you have the clutch cross shaft in correctly. It can easily be reversed (left to right and vcvs) this has the effect of loosing travel when the long arm is inadvertantly installed to the left instead of the right.
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45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

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Cacti_Ken · Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:05 pm Post subject:

Wes the shaft you are taking about, is it the one that mounts on the two ball studs?

I didn't notice one arm being longer than the other. I'll take a look at it.
Longer arm goes to the right, next to the transmission???

Ok I just took a look at it. The longer arm is mounted on the ball strud on frame bracket. That I would say is the left side. Hopefully I have it wrong and you have saved the day.
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wesk · Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:37 pm Post subject:

The two arms should be very near 180 degrees apart. I think I recall just a very almost unnoticable tilt forward of the long arm. If you have a significant forward tilt or bias of the long arm then that would explain your lack of adequate travel.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

Cacti_Ken · Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:37 am Post subject:

Well, I do have it in wrong. I have a vague memory of when I bought that shaft. I compared it with the old one. And I do recall the arms on the new one were not in the same place as the old one that was previously on the jeep. I cannot find the old one now. I am going to remove the shaft today and compare it with your drawing and notes. If it isn't the same I'll have to grind the weld and reposition an arm.

Ken
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Cacti_Ken · Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:41 am Post subject:

Here is the new clutch cross shaft. The long arm is tilted rearward instead of forward.
The adjustment rod may not be long enough to fit this, but I'll check it out.
And make sure the long arm is next to the tranny.

[/img]
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wesk · Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:51 am Post subject:

I'm not always 100% correct. I should have said it can give problems if it is off in either direction. However how much off it can be and still work I don't know. Since your main problem was having reversed why not try it with the long arm on the right where it belongs and see if she'll adjust within specs?
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

Cacti_Ken · Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:58 am Post subject:

I do recall that one of the shafts (the brake or clutch shaft) were a little different in their arm positions. I still have the old shaft with the one arm. But I can find the other shaft with the two arms. So I compared the two shafts with the one arm and they look Identical.

Anyway you've probably got it right. This new shaft could have been welded wrong.

I reinstalled the clutch cross shaft with the long arm next to the tranny. I had to lengthen the rod adjustment on the left so the arm on the right would position forward., yet it is pretty straight up now. The left arm is now more rearward.

I have right at 1 inch of free pedal play. The pedal is a lot more stiff than it was before when I had no pedal play. I hope that is good sign.

I don't have the floor pans off now. I had to put them on when I took it for a test drive yesterday so I can't see in the bellhousing.

I'm gonna take it on the hiway in a little bit to see if I can shift the OD unit from Direct Drive to OD after I have reached some speed.
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Cacti_Ken · Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:54 am Post subject:

Well repositioning the clutch cross shaft and adjusting the pedal play didn't help with getting OD unit into OD from DD on the go.

More head scratching! At least I think I will stop pondering the notion to take out the engine or drop the Tranny and T/C for now.
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