Metro Engineering "Arctic top" needs help to fit M

BullRun · Member Joined: Mar 10, 2009 Posts: 459

All aluminum Metro Engineering military top with vent on back panel and aluminum doors with sliding windows and straight windshield frame. This is an "Arctic Top". Probably made for the M38 originally but I have seen this same top on an M38A1. Has the high door handle position next to the window versus the low handle position seen on plywood doors.

Same top can be seen on the Arctic Top page of the CJ 3A web site except that mine is a military model. It is the black top (with the protruding bolt heads) on the reddish orange CJ3A in the high desert.

Anyone know how to properly fit these doors on an M38A1? Am I missing parts for an M38A1 conversion?

The top fits fine but the doors have a gap at the hinge side due to their straight edge versus needed angular edge to fit the windshield and tub.

Does anyone know if the metal door was originally modified by a door insert to fit the angular space in the door opening?... or is this where all the plywood doors come from as they fit perfect.

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wesk · Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:12 pm Post subject:

The hardtops for the A1 and the M38 are different. Windshield shape at the top and angle at the side is different. If one tries hard enough one can force anything to fit anything. Wink

But the the M38 top will match windshield shape and angles on the CJ3A and 3B perfectly.

Once you force the top to fit your only choice on door fit is to fabricate the necessary panels that will interface with the two different angles.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

BullRun · Member Joined: Mar 10, 2009 Posts: 459

Hey Thanks Wes:

I was hoping I might get a quick reply.

The confusing part is I have seen the same hard top on an A1 with similar metal doors. The top has a curved cross member that fits over the A1 windshield. Good point, it must of been designed for the A1 and not the M38. So it must be missing spacers that allowed the doors to be installed on the A1. The top minus the doors is identical in construction to the plywood door model by (I think) Standard Stamping of Detroit. The doors seem to be the question mark.. Based on what I have learned so far it is a very rare top, Metro Engineering is not commonly known to have made a military version of their "Arctic Top".

Once installed it makes a tough looking all weather enclosure. Looks like I will be chasing down that other top to see how it is put together...

wesk · Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:42 am Post subject:

Contracts for arctic tops were released by the Army several times and filled by various manufacturers. Even Willys filled one contract. The roof is definitely a fits one jeep only design, either M38 or M38A1. Also if you check the lower edge of the rear quarters and rear panel they set differently on the ledge.

M38

M38A1

_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

BullRun · Member Joined: Mar 10, 2009 Posts: 459

Thanks Wes for the pictures. Much Appreciated!

Now we are making headway on this puzzle.

The top I have is identical in design to the M38A1 version in the lower two pictures. My doors are very clunky compared to the slick plywood design but I think they are original as I noticed a slight taper in the right place on the door edge.

I would not be surprised to find out that Standard Stamping and Metro Engineering are some how related as the tops appear to be identical except for the variations in handle placement and door design.

As you once said (in so many words) what your looking at might not be what it appears to be in regard to originality. This is the case here too. I decided that the windshield is probably from a CJ2A or home made not an M38 or CJ3A or B. It is a junk piece that was somehow used probably by just resting the top onto it and wiring or taping it together.

So right now I think the top and 2 doors are M38A1 correct and the windshield was cobbled together creating the illusion of an M38 windshield.

A very interesting top for a jeep that has several variations on the same basic design. All of which appear to be "correct"

I will be restoring this top if any one is interested in pictures.

Thanks Again Wes!

wesk · Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:03 pm Post subject:

Yes yes, put the photos in our photo album page. Get a good view of the top's data plate as well.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

BullRun · Member Joined: Mar 10, 2009 Posts: 459

It will be awhile but will do!

Thanks, Wes

wesk · Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:31 am Post subject:

Here's the link to your personal album:
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Bullrun&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

BullRun · Member Joined: Mar 10, 2009 Posts: 459

Thanks, Wes!

jonesal · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:30 am Post subject:

I have anecdotal evidence that a conversion kit was made that replaced the front brace on a M38 top to adapt to the angled windscreen on an A1, and included new doors and mounting hardware. My tape measure tells me that the M38 tops and A1 tops are the same length on the roof line. The Holy Grail for me will be finding actual documentation of such (then I can say "Ah ha!"). I always like to think I'm getting closer.

I have never seen door inserts in this so-called "kit".

Along those lines, it would be easy to manufacture the brace as it is all stamped sheet metal in easy geometrical shapes. A few spot welds and you are done. Then all you need are the proper doors in aluminium or plywood. Original plywood doors are getting very hard to find.

Allen

wesk · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:57 am Post subject:

1-The M38 arctic top roof is longer front to rear than the M38A1. This is because the M38 roof was designed to fit the vertical M38 arctic windshield which places the top edge of the windshield several inches further forward than the M38A1 stock windshield which remains angled aft. So you would have to make an adapter that would close up the gap at the top of the M38A1 windshield and match the different contours.

2-The m38 arctic top side and rear panels interface differently with the top edges of the M38 tub and tailgate then the M38A1's does with the A1's tub top edges and rear fixed panel top edges.

3-The Army spending the tax payers dollar had no desire to make one jeep's top fit the other jeep.

4-All the evidence points to some off the wall mods by a civvy owner that had one jeep and the other jeeps top and had to make them fit. Necessity is the mother of invention.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php


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