Engine Timing

[blaze]

Hi Everyone
I'm a new member to this site and still learning my way around. I read an excellent article on timing in the archive. The title was Initial EngineTiming for F134.
I have a 1967 M38A1 cdn. When I purchased this vehicle the owner told me that it was a small electrical problem and in no time I would have it running. Funny thing he could not tell what the actual problem was. Any way dragged her home and started my search. The usual running through the points. Changed everything ,points condensor, rotor. I had the Generator rebuilt. Put everything back together and tried starting it. The first time around it gave me a sputter or should i say atease that it wanted life. Several atemps later no luck. Next step was to pull the #1 plug and check for spark. Spark was there . Once again tried to startit up but not even a bark. I puleed the distributor cap off and had someone turn the engine over. Therotor was not turning. I puleed the distributor out and found that the end was not there that fit into the oil pump. I took apicture of the oil pump slot position. The next step was to purchase a complete new distributor and oil pump. I reinstalled theoil pump at the at the previous angle taking note of the concave slot and installed the distributor.At this point the rotor was now facing between the #2 wire and #1. I reinstalled the the cap and tried starting the engine. It back fired several times.
My question is as follows if I reroute the wires on the cap after getting top dead centre -5 degrees, Do I just follow the firing order from the position of the rotor going clockwise to the next wire.
Sorry for the book novel. Need help.
Blaze

[wesk]

Hello Blaze,

Where the pump was when you pulled the old distributor meant nothing since it had been free to turn without the distributor for some time. The correct procedure to install the fresh distributor is:

1 - Get #1 piton TDC on compression stroke.

2 - Back the crank up to 5 degrees before top dead center (BTDC).

3 - Clock the oil pump on installation so it is in the correct timing position. (You can use the distributor to determine where you want the pump. Point the rotor on the distributor to #1 wire and and set the distributor housing to the middle of it's swing space in the adjustment slot of the attachment plate. Set the distributor in place preventing the shaft from moving and insert the hold down bolt in the attachment plate finger tight. Now go under the jeep and eyeball the position of the shaft. That's where you want the pump to go. Now install the pump while a helper lifts the distributor an inch. Remember the oil pump has a helical gear so you must rotate slightly away from the position you want then as you insert it it will rotate back to the original orientation. You can check the shaft's orientation by having your helper lightly set the distributor in place. If the distributor doesn't want to slide in without the rotor moving then the pump shaft is not quite right yet.) (or you can use the TM's description of the pump shaft's correct position.)


4 - Once you have the shafts aligned and both the pump and distributor installed with the rotor pointing to the #1 plug wire you can then move on to setting the timing.




_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[blaze]

Wes K
Thank you for your reply. I did what you suggested re tdc and marks on the pully. When I inserted the distributor , the rotor was positioned more to the # 2 position. So from this position I ran the dist. wires in this manner firing order 1 3 4 2. I cranked the engine and it immediately fired and ran till the gas I had put down the carb ran out. Is there a danger leaving the firing order this way ? Secondly it may be a stupid question, but will the oil pump lubricate? As far as I can see as long as it is turning it should lubricate. Any way need to ask.
Blaze

[wesk]

Hello Blaze,

No dumb questions here.

The oil pump is driven by the cam gear. It will lubricate no matter what the distributor is doing. The distributor is driven by the oil pump.

The reason for the proper prepositioning of the oil pump is to insure you have an adequate swing of the distributor housing for timing purposes.

Although you are improperly indexed it is not a problem so long as when you adjust timing you can swing the housing far enough to get the required 5 degrees BTDC.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[blaze]

Wes K
Thankyou for the reply. I will try this way and if need be will redo. I'm glad to hear that the oil pump will work.
I' ll let you know how it works out.
Blaze

[rdsar2k]

Blaze

I had issues related to yours and I posted the following earlier to quote

" Fig 79 in TM 8014 was revised in like 1960. The numbers should be changed to 1 is 3, 4 is 2, 2 is 1, 3 is 4. I just installed my distributor after overhaul of my engine and scratched my head until i found the change in the downloads section here. So that makes the firing order 1342. one is the front by the fan then 234 to the rear. figure 79 almost screwed me up but I knew the distributor was installed correctly and the rotor was pointing to the wrong wire until I found the revision in the updates download section then it was AHA."
_________________
1955 M170
1980 JD 450C
1948 Ford 8N
2008 Rubicon Unlimited MyGig

[wesk]

Fig 79 in TM 9-8014 was changed by Change 5, 7 MAR 1960.

The fire order was never incorrect. It was 1342 in the original illustration with #1 forward towards the fan.

The revised numbering moved #1 towards the rear of the engine.

Old 1 became 3
Old 3 became 4
Old 4 became 2
Old 2 became 1

Firing order remained the same 1342.

The TM 9-8015-1 illustrations were always correct and are the illustrations I have used above.

rdsar2k is not correct in his assumption of the position of #1 wire. It is not forward toward the fan but rather aft towards the rear of the engine.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[rdsar2k]

Wes
I must respectfully disagree or your post has me completely confused. The illistrations are from the engine clutch manual. Please note item M



_________________
1955 M170
1980 JD 450C
1948 Ford 8N
2008 Rubicon Unlimited MyGig

[wesk]

I don't think you and I are reading the same posts.

1-You said the rotor should point to #1 plug wire and that the direction was towards the fan.

2-I said no, the rotor should point to #1 plug wire and the direction would be towards the rear of the engine.

3-You post a photo of #1 plug wire which is closer to the rear of the engine than it is to the fan. Which is correct.




_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[rdsar2k]

Ahh. I was refering to the spark plug, not the wirelocation on the cap. # 1 cylinder is the front of the engine (and the wire goes to the front naturally).
_________________
1955 M170
1980 JD 450C
1948 Ford 8N
2008 Rubicon Unlimited MyGig