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willysmjeeps.com :: View topic - Fitting Koenig #525 Half Cab to '53 M38A1?
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Fitting Koenig #525 Half Cab to '53 M38A1?

 
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jbjeeps
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Joined: Jun 13, 2010
Posts: 179
Location: Idaho

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:00 am    Post subject: Fitting Koenig #525 Half Cab to '53 M38A1? Reply with quote

I'm trying to get this to fit. I can't get the doors and roof to fit properly. It seems that the A1 windshield is different size/shape/angle than a CJ5 windshield. I'm thinking that's where the problem is. It's either that or pilot error . . .

My questions are:

1. has anyone successfully put this top on an A1 using the stock windshield? if so, can you explain how you did it?
2. can I put a CJ5 windshield on the A1?; if so, will the top then fit?

Thanks for any advice you can offer.
_________________
1953 M38A1 (His)
1963 CJ5 w/Tuxedo Park Mk III (Hers)

See you at the Old Jeep Rendezvous in Ashton, Idaho 9:00 am - Noon on the first Saturday after July 4th. All pre-1970 Jeep vehicles, military or civilian, stock or modified welcome.
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wesk
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 52 thru 71 M38A1 (US and CDN) are identical dimensionally with the 55 to 71 CJ5. If you do in fact have an old CJ5 hardtop (not a CJ3B or earlier flat fender CJ top) then it should slip right on. The windshield can be bent aft from folks hanging on them or the rubber gasket can be worn, rotted or compressed a lot to alter the windshield angle.

We can best help you if you will mount the cab in the correct location on the tub and post a few photos of the mis match you have.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
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jbjeeps
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Location: Idaho

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your quick reply! I'm glad to hear that the dimensions are the same. I had done quite a bit of searching on the forums and was unable to find that info.

The top I have came off of a CJ5, so I assumed that it was made for that model. But, ya never know! I recently learned of a CJ5 in my area with a 525 half cab mounted on it. I'm going to get the dimensions of that top and compare it to mine. I'm also checking to make sure I have correct hinges. I'm going to take the hinges I have to that jeep and compare.

I'll get photos posted in the next week or so.
_________________
1953 M38A1 (His)
1963 CJ5 w/Tuxedo Park Mk III (Hers)

See you at the Old Jeep Rendezvous in Ashton, Idaho 9:00 am - Noon on the first Saturday after July 4th. All pre-1970 Jeep vehicles, military or civilian, stock or modified welcome.
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wesk
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The CJ5 used at least 4 different windshields between 1955 and 1976. One basic windshield from 55 to about 68 then the wiper motor changes came and around 74 the size and angle of the windshield changes. If your half top came off a CJ5 built after 1971 then you run the risk of it not matching the standard M38A1/CJ5 1952 thru 1971 dimensions.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
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jbjeeps
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the additional info. The top I have came off a pre-71 cj5.

After reviewing the info on the CJ3B Hardtops page (again), I was reminded that the Koenig Jiffy Cab model # designates which body it was built for. For example a #325 Jiffy Half Cab was built for Cj3A. A #525 Jiffy Half Cab was built for CJ5. The factory tag on my top says Model #525.

So, next step is getting the angle of the windshield correct. That will take some shimming. Specs on the Tigertop installation page say the distance between the top of the windshield header and the back of the body tub should be 68.5 inches. I'm making the assumption that is a factory spec, not just a Tigertop spec. At lease it is a place to start.

After that comes the doors. Not sure if I have the right hinges. I will be bringing them to compare to a cj5 w/ a 525 Jiffy Half cab at next opportunity.
_________________
1953 M38A1 (His)
1963 CJ5 w/Tuxedo Park Mk III (Hers)

See you at the Old Jeep Rendezvous in Ashton, Idaho 9:00 am - Noon on the first Saturday after July 4th. All pre-1970 Jeep vehicles, military or civilian, stock or modified welcome.
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wesk
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always used the doors to set the top up with the windshield on old used units. Saves time since setting windshield angle to a spec will only have you re-adjusting later to the door angles. Set the hardtop in position. Determine the correct hinges and mount the door while checking for the rear vertical edge of the door to match the front vertical edge of the top. Then adjust the windshield frame to the door angle. This should leave you with a manageable spacing between the top front edge of the hardtop and the top edge of the windshield.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
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jbjeeps
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:53 am    Post subject: Change of plan: canvas half cab? Reply with quote

Wes, thanks again for all your info. Your willingness to take the time to help those of us on this forum is appreciated by all!

But, after trying many different approaches I've decided that this top just does not want to be on this jeep! So, the bikini top is back on the A1 and the metal half cab is on the shelf. No, it's not for sale, just waiting for the right jeep to come along. (Honey, let's take a ride over to Grandview, I heard there's an old jeep there . . . Very Happy )

However, I like the look of a half cab and I'd really like to put one on the A1. Can anyone recommend a source for a canvas half cab? Or plans to make one? Doors not necessary.
_________________
1953 M38A1 (His)
1963 CJ5 w/Tuxedo Park Mk III (Hers)

See you at the Old Jeep Rendezvous in Ashton, Idaho 9:00 am - Noon on the first Saturday after July 4th. All pre-1970 Jeep vehicles, military or civilian, stock or modified welcome.
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RICKG
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WHERE ABOUTS IN IDAHO ARE YOU?? IM SOUTH CENTRAL
ON THE SNAKE RIVER PLAIN NEAR THE HAGERMAN VALLEY..
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keep 'em rollin'
RICKG MC 51986 DOD 01-52
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wesk
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Willys introduced the three way canvas top long before Kayline and Best Top were born. It was an option for the CJ5 and gave you a summer over the top cover, a full winter enclosure and a half winter enclosure. It will fit the A1 if you add the mount tubes for it. The hard part is acquiring the bow set.

Here it is shown on the CJ3B
http://www.allpar.com/photos/jeep/1959/jeeps.jpg

The frame work is very similar between the 3B and the CJ5


Here's Bart's 3 part article on soft tops that includes a lot on the CJ5
http://www.film.queensu.ca/cj3b/SoftTopHistory.html


In this 3B photo site page you can see how nice the canvas half top looks.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
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jbjeeps
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Location: Idaho

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wes, thanks again! Great information. The links and the pictures are terrific. I think it will lead me to a soft half cab for the A1.

RickG, I'm in Meridian. We just drove the Snake River Canyon from Hammett to Murphy today. Looks like spring down there.
_________________
1953 M38A1 (His)
1963 CJ5 w/Tuxedo Park Mk III (Hers)

See you at the Old Jeep Rendezvous in Ashton, Idaho 9:00 am - Noon on the first Saturday after July 4th. All pre-1970 Jeep vehicles, military or civilian, stock or modified welcome.
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wesk
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Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 9946
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rear two tube sockets and the wheel house mounted receptacles can be purchased new at several vendors. I have a complete CJ5 factory Willys soft top and can provide bow tube measurements if you need them.







This rough looking old girl is my snow plow jeep.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
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jbjeeps
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Joined: Jun 13, 2010
Posts: 179
Location: Idaho

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again Wes. Good looking old jeep, I'm sure it gets the job done!

I'd like to have a half cab top, no doors or back panel needed. My wife tells me that if I can build the framework, she can sew the top. So, we're going to get to work on that. May take a while, but when we get it done I'll post some pictures.
_________________
1953 M38A1 (His)
1963 CJ5 w/Tuxedo Park Mk III (Hers)

See you at the Old Jeep Rendezvous in Ashton, Idaho 9:00 am - Noon on the first Saturday after July 4th. All pre-1970 Jeep vehicles, military or civilian, stock or modified welcome.
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View user's profile Send private message
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