Top bow support rod questions

[wilfreeman]

Alrighty - I made my rodwork using Dave's (Weebee Webbing) measurements. Everything fits up fine - except the windshield bracket hole size is a bit larger than the rod.

My questions have to do with the length of the bent end that goes through the windshield bracket. Why is this 1" long when the bracket is only 1/8" thick? Does it need to be able to move 5/8"? Also, how far from the ends of the rod should I drill the 1/8" holes? And where can I find the retaining pins and chains?

How far above the horizontal rod should the vertical rod extend? Mine is about 1 1/2" above it.

Thanks
_________________
Matt
1953 M38a1
1964 USMC M38a1
'51 USMC M100 trailer, '54 M100 trailer, '90 M101a1 trailer
Http://wilfreeman.wordpress.com (M38a1 build blog)
http://m38a1usmc.wordpress.com (USMC M38a1 rebuild blog)

[wesk]

The rod dimensions are for a new installation. You should concentrate on tailoring them to fit your jeep. By this I mean install the top and the door and set the rods where they need to be to give you the best fit. Especially for the operation of the door. The variations with age are caused by the bending aft of the windshield from abuse in the past.

The length of the rod tip entering the windshield bracket is there to help with alignment issues that crop up when you have the rod stuck in the top bow and them connected to the vertical rod then find the front end is a wee bit to far out and you only have a 1/4" and the rod is a 1/2" away from the bracket.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

[wilfreeman]

Actually, the horizontal rod length looks good and the vertical ones are vertical, so I'm good on that. I don't have my top yet (will have it in a couple of weeks), and am not going to buy/use doors anytime soon, so I really can't check their fit.

So I guess I shouldn't be worried about the rod tip at the windshield then. Also, do I need the retaining pins and chains, or just use cotter pins? Who sells the pins?

Thanks again Wes
_________________
Matt
1953 M38a1
1964 USMC M38a1
'51 USMC M100 trailer, '54 M100 trailer, '90 M101a1 trailer
Http://wilfreeman.wordpress.com (M38a1 build blog)
http://m38a1usmc.wordpress.com (USMC M38a1 rebuild blog)

[rdsar2k]

I used these clips for my shackle pins and rod retainers
http://www.tnjmurray.com/militaryvehicles/index.cfm?shop/product/id/832C603B-9BF1-1462-BEA650DB2C3D63BB/catid/9F6850A7-CF05-C31C-6086C1C56E192C32

Here are some detail shots of the original rods off Gary Keatings M170. They were very helpful to me.




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1955 M170
1980 JD 450C
1948 Ford 8N
2008 Rubicon Unlimited MyGig

[rdsar2k]

To add some more observations. The M170s use the same brackets on the windshield as the M38a1s. The hole in the bracket on my M170's had a notch in the holes that matched up to the pinches on the end of the rod shown in the photos. I am unsure whether the notches were by design or wear on mine. I drilled and installed a roll pin to emulate the pinch and drilled the hole for installing the clip.
_________________
1955 M170
1980 JD 450C
1948 Ford 8N
2008 Rubicon Unlimited MyGig

[wilfreeman]

That's some good info there! Pictures say a lot! You don't happen to have a pic of the rod installed into the w/s bracket do you? Is it supposed to be even with the outside of the w/s frame, or does it matter? I could put a couple of spot welds to hold it out to a certain place.
_________________
Matt
1953 M38a1
1964 USMC M38a1
'51 USMC M100 trailer, '54 M100 trailer, '90 M101a1 trailer
Http://wilfreeman.wordpress.com (M38a1 build blog)
http://m38a1usmc.wordpress.com (USMC M38a1 rebuild blog)

[rdsar2k]

No pics handy but picture this, make the rod like shown, shove it into the bracket as far as it will go. Pin it. The pinches are to the inside (interior) of the bracket and seem to keep the rod from wanting to back out. As I said, I used a small roll pin in place of the pinches that would barely slip thru the bracket hole. M170s rods are also bit different in how they mount in the rear but the front is the same. These are the only pics of originals (either m38a1 or m170) that I was able to find when I was doing my rod work.
_________________
1955 M170
1980 JD 450C
1948 Ford 8N
2008 Rubicon Unlimited MyGig

[rdsar2k]

I just looked at my m170 and I think the notches in the windshield bracket may be from wear. It may be that the pinches are to keep the rod from going all the way thru and make a snug fit when pinning it also setting the rod out a bit from going all the way in. Might make the top a little more water tight when closing the door by eliminating a gap from the top to the inside of the door. The snug fit may have created what looks like a notch as they do look to be worn from the outside. I may make my roll pins a bit longer to try but I do notice a slight gap behind the door in that area. That would help. Before someone points out that m170's are different, I will add they use m38a1 drivers doors and the windshield brackets are the same and in the same location on the windshield frame.
_________________
1955 M170
1980 JD 450C
1948 Ford 8N
2008 Rubicon Unlimited MyGig

[wilfreeman]

Thanks for the clarification. I noticed there are no pics on the web. Wes has some pics of the M38, but little detail on this area. I figured that the farther out of the hole the rod was, the tighter the fit might be - that's why I asked. maybe I'll just add washers until I get the right fit. Since I won't have doors, I really don't have anything to go by there.

Thanks for the info!
_________________
Matt
1953 M38a1
1964 USMC M38a1
'51 USMC M100 trailer, '54 M100 trailer, '90 M101a1 trailer
Http://wilfreeman.wordpress.com (M38a1 build blog)
http://m38a1usmc.wordpress.com (USMC M38a1 rebuild blog)