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willysmjeeps.com :: View topic - What are these holes?
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What are these holes?
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timjuhl
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Joined: Jun 27, 2011
Posts: 211
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:36 pm    Post subject: What are these holes? Reply with quote

I have some holes in the floor of my M38A1 tub that I have not been able to identify a use for. The four circled in white are not threaded and lie pretty much under the handle of the emergency brake. Are these from some Bubba mod?

The hole circled in yellow is threaded and is obviously original. [driver's seat]

Thanks again!

Tim

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Tim Juhl
1952 M38A1
1946 Aeronca L16A Army Liaison Aircraft


Last edited by timjuhl on Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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evanso1975
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Joined: May 10, 2010
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Location: North Yorkshire, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a theory on your toolbox holes; I've seen M38's with fire extinguishers mounted there:


Don't know if it would foul the M38A1's handbrake, though. Could just be Bubba's fine engineering prowess. Shocked

Owen.
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Owen

1951 US Air Force M38
1944 F-1 1/2-ton Airdrome Trailer
1940 C15 Chevrolet CMP 11-cab
1939 DKW KS200 Motorcycle
MVT # 19406
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Wiltshireboy
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Joined: Jun 20, 2010
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Location: Wiltshire UK

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yellow marker is around the hole which takes the bolt securing the RH drivers seat support. The 2 other holes (white marker) are used for my fire extinguisher and avoid the handbrake.
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Andy
M38A1 & M416A1 trailer
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timjuhl
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Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:32 am    Post subject: Holes Reply with quote

The UK to the rescue!

Yellow circled hole - Duh! Of course that's what it is.... Shows how observant I am Smile

As to the fire extinguisher, do you by chance have a picture?

Tim
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Tim Juhl
1952 M38A1
1946 Aeronca L16A Army Liaison Aircraft
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Wiltshireboy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have put a couple of pictures in my album (page 7 of members albums, Andys jeep) because I cant remember how to post them here.
If I remember correctly, when I fitted the extinguisher holder, I used one hole that was there already and drilled another. You will see the handbrake does not interfere as it is angled away.
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Andy
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timjuhl
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Fire Extinguisher Reply with quote

I see what you mean.... I haven't bolted my handle down to see what angle it runs at.... I just assumed it would be straight.

I see you have a "real" fire extinguisher. I didn't find any mention in TM98014 but I'm thinking the fire extinguisher originally mounted in that position would have been a brass Pyrene unit. If anyone knows the particulars of such an installation I'd be interested to learn more about it.

Thanks all!

Tim
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Tim Juhl
1952 M38A1
1946 Aeronca L16A Army Liaison Aircraft
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Wiltshireboy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah you got me on the non genuine extinguisher! But I wanted one that would work and they are regulation for shows over here.
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Andy
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wesk
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The brass pyrene units are non-functional today. They cannot be legally filled. The jeep did not come with one. A few were added in the field locally and we have no technical publication addressing that installation so I see no need to even consider an unusable display fire extinguisher for use in these jeeps. If you explore the history of hand fire extinguishers used in the military Pyrene was not used during the entire M38A1's useful military life. CO2, CB and Halon all saw service during those periods. In the interest of safety I would only display a useable unit.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
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timjuhl
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: Good advice Reply with quote

It's good to know what the holes are from but since extinguishers are not original to the M38A1 it's probably enough to put a functional one in the tool box. Putting one between the seats runs the risk of accidental discharge.

Tim
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Tim Juhl
1952 M38A1
1946 Aeronca L16A Army Liaison Aircraft
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evanso1975
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Putting one between the seats runs the risk of accidental discharge.

That would be.....unfortunate. Shocked
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Owen

1951 US Air Force M38
1944 F-1 1/2-ton Airdrome Trailer
1940 C15 Chevrolet CMP 11-cab
1939 DKW KS200 Motorcycle
MVT # 19406
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timjuhl
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:34 am    Post subject: Fire Extinguisher Reply with quote

Yes, unfortunate indeed. Once when stranded in a snowdrift I was picked up by the driver of a large snow plow truck. In making room for me in the cab he accidently triggered the extinguisher mounted on the floor in front of the seats.... needless to say, it created a whiteout inside the cab! Not only did we come out looking like ghosts but the chemical dust was nasty stuff to breathe. One does not forget such an experience...

Tim
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1952 M38A1
1946 Aeronca L16A Army Liaison Aircraft
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whydahdvr
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Location: Melrose, MA and Santa Fe, NM

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had something like that happen when I was in Iraq. We were on a GAC - Ground Assault Convoy - traveling from VBC through Baghdad to COP Four Corners, on the other side of the river from VBC. The BC (Battalion Commander) was with us as well.
All of sudden there was a loud bang and the truck filled with smoke. People started freaking out a bit! Turns out that either from the heat, hitting a bump, or some combination one of our halon fire extinguishers went off. It seemed similar to a small IED but we all laughed about it in the end. Couple of minutes of concern and then the rest of the ride was breathing that crap - fortunately not much more than 20-30 minutes.
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Headcase
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Location: Burnaby BC Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:47 pm    Post subject: Fire extinguisher Reply with quote

wesk wrote:
The brass pyrene units are non-functional today. They cannot be legally filled. The jeep did not come with one. A few were added in the field locally and we have no technical publication addressing that installation so I see no need to even consider an unusable display fire extinguisher for use in these jeeps. If you explore the history of hand fire extinguishers used in the military Pyrene was not used during the entire M38A1's useful military life. CO2, CB and Halon all saw service during those periods. In the interest of safety I would only display a useable unit.


Question Hmmm I am not sure I can agree with the part about the fire extingusishers not coming with the Jeep. In my July 1953 Operators manual pg.20 it shows the location and operation of said Pyrene pump style fire extinguisher for the M38A1. Now it is a CDN or Canadian version so it may differ from the US Model but is almost exact to the UK version. They are available and use 4 screws with nuts to mount from the underside of the tool box area. They will not obstruct the Brake handle as it is on an angle to the floor and the extinguisher mount.
It really does fill the area in nicely. There are later versions the were used on the M101 and the Iltus that will fit the same space and can be operated and still used to fight ABC types of fires...often found on Ebay. Look for the Canadain stuff for that. If the safety pin is in correctly there is no way that the extinguisher will fire even if the trigger mechanism is depressed slightly. No doubt the pin was out when you had your experience with a white out in the cab Hehehehe... occurred. we used to do that to others just for the laugh! You can look at another forum called Maple Leaf Up and it will show you many other examples you may not have seen. Not to take away from this forum at all as this one is for jeeps...But, best to cover all bases right?...Good luck and happy restoring Exclamation
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Headcase
1953 M38A1
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wesk
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Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 9342
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assumed the question was for a US Willys built jeep. Willys did not install any fire extinquishers in US production M38 or M38A1's.

Had he asked about a M38A1 CDN then I would assume that may be possible with a Ontario built jeep but then we have no factory info from Ford of Canada so the illustration in the Canadian manual may or may not be factory. Is the extinquisher listed in either of the Canadian IPL's?
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
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Headcase
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Posts: 33
Location: Burnaby BC Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:03 am    Post subject: Fire extinguishers Reply with quote

Hey... Not to worry but you know what they say when you assume...hehheh.
It's all good. yes the fire extinguishers issued with a jeep of that vintage were listed and equipment for a CDN CDN2 and a CDN3. Many were up graded to the newer type of extinguisher for the AB and C types of fires...being obvious wood paper, fabric, fuels/oils and chemical types. The pyrene was basically one use for one type but was the standard for the jeep issued to the Canadian Forces. These would have been installed by the military and not the factory as the manual is for the military jeep used by the Army in Canada in that time. Manual is the July 1953 restricted CDN-0M9-804-A. Very similar to the US issued manual, and yes with assistance of Ford motor company of Canada. His pictures are so clear I knew the type of mount right away as I have the same vintage jeep. I have some pics posted on page 10 heacase photo gallery.
You have to like an adminitrator who actually see's the posts! Thanks Wesk!
And thanks for the hard work long hours you put in here on this site! without this and others we'd have no dialog and thus no freedom of information to share! Case
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Headcase
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