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willysmjeeps.com :: View topic - POWER TAKE-OFF ON M38A1 NOT FOR WINCH
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POWER TAKE-OFF ON M38A1 NOT FOR WINCH
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bluewatersailor
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Joined: Nov 19, 2010
Posts: 88
Location: ITALY - TUSCANY

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:20 pm    Post subject: POWER TAKE-OFF ON M38A1 NOT FOR WINCH Reply with quote

My 1953 M38A1 came with a power take-off that has a rear-facing output shaft. A radio had been mounted on the jeep at some time, but there is no hole through the floorboard for a v-belt to connect to an auxilliary generator. Herm the Overdrive Guy couldn't identify it. Can anyone out there identify this PTO? It's the 3rd to last photo in my photo gallery (page 9). Thanks, David


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1952 M38A1, 1953 M38A1, 1952 M100
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wesk
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David,

Perhaps from a French Hotchkiss or Dutch NEKAF PTO setup?

Can you give me the dimensions of the tub mount rubber I outlined in your photo?
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
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bluewatersailor
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:10 am    Post subject: STRANGE PTO - BODY MOUNT PAD DIMENSIONS Reply with quote

Wes, the glued-on pad is 100 mm X 40 mm x 5 mm. David
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wesk
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you David. Was there a pad on the left side as well?
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
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bluewatersailor
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:51 am    Post subject: BODY PAD LEFT SIDE - NO SIGN OF ONE Reply with quote

Wes, I have since repainted the frame, but from looking at it and the photos I took, there is no sign of a corresponding pad on the left-hand side. That area was, however, severely dmaged by the fire, so I cannot exclude it enequivocally. BTW, I am pretty sure that this jeep had previously been dismantled because the body mounting bolts I found were all stainless steel metric thread. David
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Headcase
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Location: Burnaby BC Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: pto Reply with quote

It looks like the part that turns the drive to face forward is missing. I have a few pics that show an M38A1 PTO and if you look it looks like an additional part should be there bolted to that output shaft and it directs the power to the front through a short shaft. I have 3 pics in headcase photo album page 9 page 2. Hope this helps you! Not sure but just my opinion. You may ask Rob love in maple leaf up forum he's a guru for these items!
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wesk
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That rear facing PTO drive was not a US or Canada issue item.

The 105 series PTO was used in both the US and Canada for ther 50R series winch.


This is the 105 series PTO correct to the US and Canadain 50R miltary winch system.
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Wes K
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MattRobinson
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wes,

I just joined in the last few days and you have already helped me. I have not taken the body off my 1954 M38A1 yet but I also have a PTO that appears to face rearward.

Matt Robinson
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MattRobinson
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My PTO, on my 1954 M38A1, has a universal joint on the end of it, which is not attached to anything. The PTO shifter is aft of the three normal shifters and next to the emergency brake. The PTO drive appears to extend only rearward. There are two round holes on the rear of the vehicle: one which would be behind the pintle hook (My vehicle does not have the pintle hook); and a second to the left or driver's side of the 1st and a little lower. As I sight through the two holes, the one behind the location of the pintle hook lines up with the PTO universal joint; the second one, a little lower and to the left, lines up but has the exhaust pipe as an obstruction. It looks as if a shaft could run from the PTO universal joint, straight back and through the hole behind the pintle hook. Could this be for some type of equipment behind the Jeep?


The front of the jeep has an area which appears to be large enough; and also has threaded holes in the frame which may or may not be able to accommodate a winch, but I do not know enough.

The best information I have was that my M38A1 was a US Military vehicle. It was shipped up to RI from the Carolinas.


Matt Robinson
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wesk
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the standard PTO for the rear implement drive system found on farm jeeps.






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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
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MattRobinson
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again Wes. What does that mean about my Jeep? It has the MD serial number on both the engine and the body, with OD green paint. Why would it also have the farm PTO? Did the military M38A1's also have the farm PTO? Or could it have been used with a winch and later converted to the farm PTO?

Matt Robinson
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wesk
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a 60 year old vehicle we have no idea how much equipment was added, removed, exchanged or simply lost. It just may be that rear facing PTO was hanging on the replacement tranny/transfer assembly changed years ago by another owner. Can you produce photos of all four sides, top and bottom of your transfer case?

Here is your album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album396&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

Here's the rules:
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=498

Here's the tutorial for loading your album:
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album53&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

Here's the tutorial for posting your photos:
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=8670
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Wes K
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MattRobinson
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't provide the photos of all four sides at this time. Eventually, when I tear it down further, I will.

The universal joint, hanging on the end of the PTO, would strike the underside of the floor if the PTO is accidentally engaged they way she sits now because the joint is not being held straight aft as it would if connected to a shaft. I do not see any marks on the underside to indicate it ever struck the floor. Unless someone was very careful to never engage the PTO, it must have been attached to the shaft extending all the way aft. This is probably why the rear bumperettes and pintle are missing. I am guessing there was equipment attached to the back of the jeep.

The jeep was painted yellow after the OD green; then it was painted red; then it was painted gray. Did any flight line or fire service in the military require some type of aft mounted water pump? I was told this jeep was used on a flight line.

Matt Robinson
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wesk
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes as did the BLM and the US Fire Service who all operated these jeeps in that capacity. It was also common for these jeeps to be used in the civilian world as movable power units for other PTO driven equipment.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That all makes sense.

Matt Robinson
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