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Willys M Jeeps Forums


willysmjeeps.com :: View topic - Dating my M38A1
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Dating my M38A1

 
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wesk
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Posts: 16227
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:14 pm    Post subject: Dating my M38A1 Reply with quote

This question was sent to me by MattRobinson. I posted it here to be shared by everyone.

Matt asked:
Quote:
Wes,

I read that you are keeping a list of owner's serial numbers and may be able to assist me with identifying the date of manufacturer for my M38A1.

I have registered my M38A1 with the state of RI as a 1954. The tag on the rear passenger fender indicated serial number: MD 78688; this is what I used for the VIN for registration. Is this actually a 1954 or 1955?

I recently found the engine serial number: MD 100241; just above the water pump area. What year is the engine?

Is there anything else you can tell me I have not thought to ask?

Thanks for any assistance you can provide,

_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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wesk
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Posts: 16227
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Matt,

Our web site was started over 10 years ago as a place for folks to learn and share this Willys M Jeeps hobby. The success of the site has been tremendous because we have kept our questions out in the public board area where all can benefit from the answers.

You were sent a jeep survey form. That form collects the data we use to help folks learn more about their jeeps and find out more about what is correct or incorrect.

MD78688 fits between MD77363 a Nov 54 jeep and MD78775 a DEC 54 jeep. The military contracts were on the calendar year not model year concept so 1954 your jeep is. We do not have enough engine serial numbers in our data base for the 54/55 years to make an accurate assessment of what are correct or approximately correct engine serials should be.

Your contract # would have been -630. Most of these Nov/Dec 54 jeeps went to the Army. The only way to tell if a pre-1962 M38A1 was originally delivered to the Marines is from the dataplate set on the dash. The responsible agency plate will have the answer for that.





A word of caution here. When the Army made the big switch from M38A1 to M151, the Marines did not. They had tested the M151 and did not like it. So when the Army declared the bulk of their A1's surplus in 1960/61 the Marines picked most of them up from the DRMO. These several thousand M38A1's were then processed thru the Marine vehicle depots at Barstow and Albany and brought up to the same standard as their current 62/64 contract m38A1's. This meant they received new responsible agency plates like the second above, they also gained posi rear ends, undercoating, M151 style instrument cluster lamps and many also got the M151 style air cleaners. These are the jeeps that often confuse owners trying to discern which service owned them.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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MattRobinson
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Joined: Sep 27, 2014
Posts: 12
Location: Rhode Island (East Providence)

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wes,

Thank you very much for the information. My 1954 Willys M38A1 does not have the M151 instrument cluster nor the M151 air cleaner. Both are the M38A1 parts.

All the dash data plates were gone when I obtained the vehicle. I was lucky to have the one behind the passenger seat.

I will work on the survey data. I have a lot to learn!

I did find that the vehicle was originally OD green, then painted yellow, then red, then gray. Both bumperettes are gone. I tried to look for the hood number on the driver's side with no luck; maybe the passenger side.

Matt Robinson
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45auto
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Joined: Apr 06, 2005
Posts: 147
Location: Georgia

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt,

I can add to what Wes has posted--I have 7 reported serial numbers above yours and 10 below all with a 12 / 54 delivery date.

I have MD 74852 with engine SN 96364 and MD 81746 with engine SN 103303---It is quite a spread but simple math puts your engine serial number within the correct range of being the factory original engine.

Take the spread between MD 74852 and MD 78688 which is 3836 unit spread and add it to engine SN 96364 and you come up with engine 100200. Your engine SN is 100241.
Take the spread between MD 78688 and 81746 and you come up with 3036 units spread. Add it to your engine SN 100241 and you come up with engine 103277. Very close to MD 81746 engine SN 103303. Feel free to check my math.

It should be noted that M38A1 engines were not installed in any serial number order. The worker just went in and got an engine out of the "engine room" -- which, you can see how the theory of the first engine in was the last engine out. Several engines may have come in before the next M38Al came down the assembly line and the worker just got the first one he came to. However you can clearly see a "range" of how the engines serial numbers were running if enough data is in the database. While I am using exact numbers--one really needs to look at the first 3 digits to see if you are close to being in range of what your engine serial number could have been. Sometimes you can go to 4 digits but that is as close as you can get with good data.

With the above data and seeing how narrow the range is for a random engine within the correct SN range just happen to fine its way back in your M38A1--you have a strong case of your engine being the factory original.

Wes pointed out sometime back of seeing all the jeeps in a unit (or gave it as an example) having the engines pulled and rebuilt and re-installed in the first jeep they came too. If those jeeps were close in serial number, then you would still have the correct range for an engine serial number but none of them were install in the jeep it came out of. The point, while we will never know the exact engine number for any given M-series jeep, your engine is in the correct range and could be the factory original.
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Harold W.
MVPA #6833
1945 GPW
1950 CJV-35/U
1951 M38 1952 M38
1962 USMC Contract M38A1
1953 Strick M100 1967 Johnson M416
1968 CJ5 4-Speed 1969 CJ5 V6
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MattRobinson
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Joined: Sep 27, 2014
Posts: 12
Location: Rhode Island (East Providence)

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harold,

Thank you for such detailed information. I incorrectly assumed my M38A1 had the engine replaced because the engine serial number was different from the body. I now know better and understand that it is likely, but not certain, that I have the original engine.

I obtained this jeep several months ago and it has sat in my driveway until last week due to other commitments. I am now delving into a long and slow restoration. I joined this group earlier today and have already gained so much. I owe you a deb of thanks and I am sure I will be asking lots of questions and learning from your site as I move forward with my project.

Thanks again,

Matt Robinson
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wesk
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt,

You also have a lot of M Jeeps talent right there in Providence. Look up Tom Mackie who is a member of this group.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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MattRobinson
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Location: Rhode Island (East Providence)

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will look him up this week. We also just got the engine running in the past hour. I don't have a fuel tank yet, but she runs on the little bit of fuel my friend, Mike, and I poured in the carburetor. I'm very excited! She runs!!

Matt Robinson
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TomM
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:13 am    Post subject: M38A1 Reply with quote

Matt,
You have a PM from me with contact info. Give me a call any time. Looking forward to hearing your progress with the M38A1.
Tom
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