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willysmjeeps.com :: View topic - Flush tail lights on my 1953 M38A1
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Flush tail lights on my 1953 M38A1
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C5loadmaster
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Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Posts: 29
Location: Clinton, CT

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:38 pm    Post subject: Flush tail lights on my 1953 M38A1 Reply with quote

New guy here first post and can't get the photo to show you. My 1953 M38A1 has tail lights that are basically flush to the body except for the bezel ring which holds a round reflector. There are no black out lights on the rear of the vehicle but I have black out lights on the grill. From what I can tell the Jeep has an aftermarket turn signal control. They actually put the front turn signals over the blackout lights on the grill. Jeep was prior military from the OD green paint under the hood and red paint from the forestry service.

Can anyone tell me if they have seen tail lights like I described? And sorry cause I did not write down my serial numbers before posting this.
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timjuhl
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Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:00 pm    Post subject: lights Reply with quote

I've seen a lot of different tail light mods but to my knowledge, what you describe was never used by the military. I had a similar problem, the holes in the back of my tub were actually squared off at the top to accommodate aftermarket tail lights so a bit of welding had to be done and GI tail lights obtained.

As far as photos are concerned - I store mine in a free Photobucket account. I trim them down to 600-800 pixels wide and when I want to add them to a post I simply copy the IMG (Image) file code and paste it in the text. You might want to come up with a way to post photos as it makes it a lot easier for the rest of us to see what you're talking about.

Welcome!

Tim
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Tim Juhl
1952 M38A1
1946 Aeronca L16A Army Liaison Aircraft
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C5loadmaster
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger,working on the photo posting! Thanks,
Matt
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wesk
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That entire rear panel with the exception of the top "C" channel looks locally fabricated.

Load a good daylight quality set of photos of your jeep looking straight on (squarely) at each of the 4 sides and left, right & front views of the engine compartment. Straight on shot of the dash. Closeup of the inside and outside of the front frame rails between the grill and the bumper.

Those are definately not Military added lights.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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C5loadmaster
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Location: Clinton, CT

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Ok, finally got over the photo posting with help from Wes. Yes, I have since cut off the extra trailer ball and L channel that the ball was on. Was looking to see where to mount the spare tire carrier and gas can carrier . Did not see any old holes till I looked from the inside. Someone bondo'd the heck out of the tailgate. I can see the mounting holes from the inside.

Now the taillights, I am going to yank them out and see what is behind them to see if I can mount true tail lights back.

Ok, nobody laugh at my ride ! Trying to get it mobile to assess what works and what doesn't and for now she gets a spray can face lift.
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RICKG
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Location: SO IDAHO

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C5loadmaster wrote:
[Ok, nobody laugh at my ride !

Matt, nobody's laughing, man-We've all been there at 1 point or another!!
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RICKG MC 51986 DOD 01-52, '50 CJ3a
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C5loadmaster
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem. Just dying to get the engine back in and fire it up!
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timjuhl
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Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:46 pm    Post subject: M38A1 Reply with quote

I looked at your pix and it brought back memories of some of the issues I went thru in the year-long restoration of my Jeep. I had to track down a lot of the GI parts as they were mostly missing from my Jeep.

It looks like you have a good basis for a restoration project and it is up to you how far you want to take it. Nobody is going to criticize you for how you choose to restore it... each of us have had to decide how far our skills and wallets can take us.

What I found helpful was looking at restored Jeeps and taking photos and measurements to compare with mine. If you need help you've certainly come to the right place.

Good Luck!
Tim
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Tim Juhl
1952 M38A1
1946 Aeronca L16A Army Liaison Aircraft
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C5loadmaster
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I took out my tail lights and found that there are mounting holes recessed in the tailgate. Also found about 3/16 to 1/4 fiberglass bondo across most of the gate. The tail light hole is just short of 5" in diameter. There were 3 mounting tabs which looked to be the kind of clips that slide over sheet metal to give you a screw hole. They were bondo'd in so I just broke them off. The bulbs in the old tail lights were 1157's so that is telling me somehow they had 12 v going to the tail lights.
I am going to start looking for a complete 24 volt wiring harness to replace all the wiring.

I also found my trailer electrical plug hole above the left tail light. It has a piece of metal over it and then bondo. I am going to dremel out the filler and see what is holding that piece of metal in.


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C5loadmaster
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought two of these taillights a while back. May have jumped the gun on these. Can anyone tell me based on the part number, did I get the right set for my Jeep?
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RICKG
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good News.. it appears from the foto that the stock mounting plate
is still in place on the tub..(Good News cuz many are rusted away).
If you have 2 of the same fixtures then you have both as left
driver side 3 lamp fixtures (Good News if you want dedicated
Brake, Turn and Tail lamps both sides) not so good if you're going for
factory resto. IMO you're in a good place where you are so far with
dumping the flush mt taillites.
FYI myself and others have pulled and stored away the orig type lenses
and gone with the Gama-Goat type lenses for greater visibility
in traffic (my personal preference only)

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RICKG MC 51986 DOD 01-52, '50 CJ3a
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wesk
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those three mount tabs are not original to your jeep. They were welded on by a prior owner.

7760507 was the original left rear light assembly listed in the M38A1 ORD 9 SNL G-758. They were made by Industrial Lamp Corporation.

8378786 was a M151 right tail light with BO stop and no red lens. Apparently your box is mismarked. 8378785 is the left M151 lamp with the red lens. It is possible that since eventually all M151's ended up with turn signals that the red lens lamp ended up under that number as well. Looks like they have the M151 rubber Packard connectors as well which is easily converted to the correct metal Douglas connectors. What are the numbers on the metal tags on each wire?
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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C5loadmaster
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The numbers on the 3 leads are 21, 22,24.

Before I make an epic blunder, if I order a wiring harness for a 1953 M38A1 , what would the tail light wires have? Would it be brake, parking light and BO light? Question: does a M38A1 have a BO light that is built into the tail light housing like my picture or does it have a separate BO marker light? It is hard to tell because any mounting holes in the tailgate have been covered with filler. I just found the trailer hole from feeling around up in the left tail light hole.
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C5loadmaster
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting thing that Chris Lange's Red M38A1 in his pic gallery has the same tail lights as what I pulled out. Maybe they are issue?
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wesk
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a common commercial aftermarket light assy. The lights on Chris's probably got there the same day that cuivvy license plate light and bracket did.

The correct light assy style is what you have but the leads are not correct type of connectors.

If you are going to spend over $500 for a correct harness you will need to decide if you will run turn signals or not. The harness manufacture can customize your harness for turn signals but you will have to tell him before you order and also decide how you will do the front turn signals. In the front your choices are a second light assy on each side or adding a dual socket to your existing light in the grill or using the existing grill light as only a turn signal with no parking light function.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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