Berlin 1961

Scrapyard · Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:35 pm Post subject: Berlin 1961

What can you experts tell me about these two M38 A1? Both pictures were taken in Berlin in 1961 during the Checkpoint Charlie incident. The b/w one is from the ewillys page.

Why two types of hood numbers?

What information do the hood number and the other markings provide?

What kind of radio equipment?

wesk · Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:59 pm Post subject:

The long hood number arrangement was used thru about July 1954 and then came the switch to the two digit prefix and 4 digit main number.

The hood numbers tell you nothing. The servicing stencils also tell you nothing. The only marking that offers some insight are the ORD depot dates showing each jeep went through an Ordinance depot, the top one in Sep 60 and bottom one in Feb 61.

Radios are covered and/or not visible but the one case looks like a SEM 25.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

oilleaker1 · Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:41 pm Post subject:

Wes, my "52 A1 has that under the hood by the shovel and says ORD '64. What does that mean exactly? Thanks, John

BBDE · Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:36 pm Post subject:

The Radioset will be a VRC 10 set with a RT-68 for the 6th Inf.

In the first picture with the cover and on the second pic without cover.
Jeeps from the 287th MP use AN/VRC 19 Radiosets that time.
The SEM 25 is a german military radio.

Why two types of hood numbers?

Some Jeeps had the "old style" registration numbers and some had the new style registration numbers.
Most of the M38A1´s in Berlin where "early" 52-53 DOD´s.
You can see Jeep´s with small and with large stars on the rear sites, together in service.

Frank

wesk · Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:27 pm Post subject:

Frank,

My Bad. I was looking at the wrong radio reference photo. The case shown is more likely a RT66/67/68 series.

RT-68

SEM-25

Did the MP's not carry Sem 25's at all in Germany? We have a lot of them here surplus with manuals.

Did you determine the jeep's assigned unit from the shoulder patches?
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

BBDE · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:52 am Post subject:

Wes,

"Did you determine the jeep's assigned unit from the shoulder patches?"

Yes, but it´s possible that the pictured Jeeps in scrapyards post belongs to 40th Armor
( Turner Tankers)
The MP´s from 287th MP Co. wear MP marked helmets and MP brassards as all other American MP´s too.
So those Jeeps cannot be MP Jeeps.
At Checkpoint Charlie in 1961 are a few units on duty that carried the Berlin Brigade patch ( flame sword ).
At first the two Battle Groups of 6th Infantry ( 2nd and 3rd BG)
The 40th Armor
The 287th Military Co.
And the Combat Support units.
There are much more units in Berlin at the top of the Berlin crises that President Kennedy send to West Berlin, but those units wear there own unit patch during there time in Berlin.

Here you can see a MP Jeep with an AN/VRC-19 Radio Set.

MP´s and Turner Tankers

2nd Battle Group 6th Infantry with a PRC 10 Radioset on the backseat

3rd Battlegroup 6th Inf. on post at Glieniker Brücke ( where the spy´s exchanges happend)

That´s me at Checkpoint Charlie to the dedication of the rebuilded Guard Office

Frank

The Radio Set in the Jeep´s pictured by Scrapyard will be a VRC-18
and not a VRC-10. The VRC-10 is mounted on the weelhouse instead the VRC-18 in the rear. Sorry, my fault

whydahdvr · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:51 am Post subject:

The buildings in the first B/W photo look like they're still damaged from WWII. How long did it take for Berlin to get cleaned up and rebuilt after May 1945?

Xamon · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:27 am Post subject:

not sure I can add anything inteligent here but in the first black and white phot, the private that is driving is wearing an early spec force knife and the person driving the colour photo appears to have an airborne patch. The passenger in the first photo is either a major or more likely based on tone a colonel. Hard to read his patch but it may be an airborne as well.
_________________
Carievale Saskatchewan Canada
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=album210&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

BBDE · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:51 am Post subject:

The patches I can see are those from the Berlin Brigade.

The standard Berlin Brigade patches.

The one on the right is one from the early sixties.

The earlyer Berlin District patches

Battle Group and regimental pocket patches

Pocket patches from 40th Armor

@ whydahdvr,

a long time after 1945 some buildings had their damages visible.
In the former eastern Berlin they where longer visible as in west Berlin.
At some Buildings you can see some bullit holes today.

Frank

wesk · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:16 am Post subject:

John I am guessing it indicates the date last serviced by an Ordnance motor pool or depot. Under the hood it is usually found with a servicing note like anti-freeze + date.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

wesk · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:19 am Post subject:

Frank or anyone familiar with vehicle markings in Berlin from the 60's can you list the complete organization designation for each of the bumper markings?

_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

BBDE · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:19 am Post subject:

Hello Wes,

1. AE-BC 287 P-26
Army Europ - Berlin Command 287th Military Police Co. Vehicle 26

2. BB-6-I 3D-1
Berlin Brigade - 6th Infantry 3rd Battlegroup D company 1st vehicle

3. BC-6-I 2E-4
Berlin Command- 6th Infantry 2nd Battlegroup E company 4th vehicle
( E company was the Motar Platoon)

4. AE-BC 287P-25
same as 1. but vehicle 25 in column.

5. BC 6-I 2A-3
Berlin Command- 6th Infantry 2nd Battlegroup A company 3rd vehicle

Berlin Military District ------ 4. Juli 1945
Berlin Command --------------- 1. Nov 1946
Berlin-Military-Post ---------- 1. Mai 1948
Berlin Command --------------- 5. Dez 1952
Army Europ- Berlin Command mid 50
Berlin Brigade ------------------ 1. Dez 1961
Berlin Brigade later Bumper code BBDE

Frank

wesk · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:23 pm Post subject:

Frank,

Thanks for your help.

This should help many members with their unit numbering markings.

Were you personally involved during this time period in our military's presence in Germany?
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

DMCarpenter · Member Joined: May 28, 2007 Posts: 97 Location: Denver, NC

Frank:

Good information, thanks from a Kiebitz.

madmike · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:48 pm Post subject:

In the second (color) picture, the A1 appears to have a gloss paint job, though I am told over and over again that the Army did not paint Jeeps in gloss. It does not appear to be raining (no one is wearing cover and the street is not wet) and you can see the reflection of the BO light as well as other reflections. If only the USMC painted gloss and semi-gloss, why is this Army Jeep gloss?

Mike


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