Joined: Feb 17, 2012 Posts: 530 Location: Del City, OK
Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 4:26 pm Post subject: Need Some Photos
On my M-38A1 there is a spring type mount that holds the passenger side seat in place... Could someone post a photo of the proper mounting of this bracket... I cut the old bracket off the original tub and saved it; but the replacement tub that came with the project did not have it... So now I need to get it figured out and put back in... Photo below shows the bracket and approximate location...
Thanks in advance for any aid you can give... _________________ Hal, KB1ZQ
TSGT, USAF (Ret)
1952 M-38 CDN CAR 52-31313
1952 M-100 Strick #104
1951 Willys Wagon (For Sale)
1954 Willys M38A1 201001205
Tornado Alley
Del City, OK
Joined: Feb 17, 2012 Posts: 530 Location: Del City, OK
Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 5:02 pm Post subject:
Thanks Wes, Just need to patch a small hole in that area first... then can mount the bracket. _________________ Hal, KB1ZQ
TSGT, USAF (Ret)
1952 M-38 CDN CAR 52-31313
1952 M-100 Strick #104
1951 Willys Wagon (For Sale)
1954 Willys M38A1 201001205
Tornado Alley
Del City, OK
Joined: Apr 16, 2014 Posts: 12 Location: Sussex, UK
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: Need Some Photos
OKCM38CDN wrote:
On my M-38A1 there is a spring type mount that holds the passenger side seat in place... Could someone post a photo of the proper mounting of this bracket... I cut the old bracket off the original tub and saved it; but the replacement tub that came with the project did not have it... So now I need to get it figured out and put back in... Photo below shows the bracket and approximate location...
Thanks in advance for any aid you can give...
Hi, do you know if anybody fabricates this bracket? I have the spring that fits in it, but I need the bracket. Thanks, Bruce.
What is your M38A1's serial number. The spring and bracket retainer wasn't used on early M38A1 serials MD10002 thru MD61808. It was introduced on the later A1's MD61809 and on October 1953.
Willys PN 684185 - Bracket, pass seat retaining spring
The early M38A1's solved the problem of the bouncing passenger seat when it was empty by adding an old fashion slide-bolt latch to the inboard rear seat leg on top of the tool box.
Joined: Apr 16, 2014 Posts: 12 Location: Sussex, UK
Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:40 am Post subject:
wesk wrote:
What is your M38A1's serial number. The spring and bracket retainer wasn't used on early M38A1 serials MD10002 thru MD61808. It was introduced on the later A1's MD61809 and on October 1953.
Willys PN 684185 - Bracket, pass seat retaining spring
The early M38A1's solved the problem of the bouncing passenger seat when it was empty by adding an old fashion slide-bolt latch to the inboard rear seat leg on top of the tool box.
This mod was contained in MWO ORD G1-W50:
Hi Wes,
Many thanks for your prompt reply.
My USAF M38A1 is serial number MD 38173 but the body tub is from a later Kaiser mine detector jeep, one of two sent to UK for evaluation back in the '60s, then it was eventually broken for parts to keep the other one going. Its serial plate says 7105 96270. The passenger seat doesn't sit right without something to support it, so I guess it must need this bracket.
Thanks,
Bruce
Joined: May 30, 2014 Posts: 3444 Location: Texas Hill Country
Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:53 am Post subject:
Bruce,
There is a tab welded to the front of the wheelhouse the seat frame sits against on the M38. The M38 and A1 use the same passenger seat frame or two similar versions on the A1. In any case they are physically interchangeable.
The tab is similar to the driver side except no hole for the retaining bolt.
If the seat frame is in the front brackets and sitting on the toolbox in the left rear and has a right rear lean I bet this little guy is missing.
Joined: Apr 16, 2014 Posts: 12 Location: Sussex, UK
Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:11 pm Post subject:
4x4M38 wrote:
Bruce,
There is a tab welded to the front of the wheelhouse the seat frame sits against on the M38. The M38 and A1 use the same passenger seat frame or two similar versions on the A1. In any case they are physically interchangeable.
The tab is similar to the driver side except no hole for the retaining bolt.
If the seat frame is in the front brackets and sitting on the toolbox in the left rear and has a right rear lean I bet this little guy is missing.
My two cents.
Hello Brian,
Unfortunately my M38 is away in winter storage so I haven't been able to look at the tab you mention, but looking on the internet I see what you mean. The M38A1 has nothing on the wheelhouse on either side. I guess it was used like this in service as the seat has a bend to it. I have had a couple of other A1s in the past but I can't remember how the passenger seat was supported. The current position is definitely not right though. Regards, Bruce.
Joined: Apr 16, 2014 Posts: 12 Location: Sussex, UK
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:30 am Post subject:
4x4M38 wrote:
From Wes’ photo pages and a pic of a blue tub it looks like the A1 did not have that right side wheelhouse bracket for the seat like the M38.
It escapes me as to why not.
Mine being beat flat, the damage to the wheelhouse by the seat frame banging on it is readily apparent.
Fascinating that the folks in charge decided at some point something was needed, and came up with a more complicated and expensive option.
Unless I can come up with the bracket that holds the retaining spring, I think I will resort to a piece of shaped hardwood. That, together with a spring bolt on the other side to stop the seat tipping forward, will probably be a quicker and easier fix. Having owned Jeeps and Land Rovers for 50 years, I've long since given up wondering why 'they didn't do that'.
Joined: May 30, 2014 Posts: 3444 Location: Texas Hill Country
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:54 am Post subject:
Well if you are not worried about the “Factory” or as delivered aspect, simply bend up a bracket out of 18 gauge and spot weld it on the front of the wheelhouse.
The M38’s had them. It has a ledge the frame sets on to keep the back of the seat frame level and off the wheelhouse.
If I recall correctly the U channel welded just above the yellow square stopped the seat tilt rearward at level originally. Is this U channel on your jeep? _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Apr 16, 2014 Posts: 12 Location: Sussex, UK
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:15 am Post subject:
wesk wrote:
If I recall correctly the U channel welded just above the yellow square stopped the seat tilt rearward at level originally. Is this U channel on your jeep?
Hi Wes, yes the U channel is in place but the back of the seat strikes the wheelhouse above that level. I have tried the same exercise with a seat from a CJ3 with exactly the same result. Interestingly, both seats have a twist to them so they've obviously been used without support on the right side. If I put a block of wood, about 1 1/2 inches high, on the floor, right in the corner up against the wheelhouse, the seat sits square on it and it also sits about 1/2 inch clear of the wheelhouse. All I am doing is replicating what the correct bracket would do. So, back to my earlier question, do you know if anybody fabricates this bracket, or can somebody provide me with the dimensions so I can get one made. Many thanks, Bruce.
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