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willysmjeeps.com :: View topic - Distributor shaft not turning anymore!
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Distributor shaft not turning anymore!
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Andysm38
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Joined: Apr 24, 2014
Posts: 48
Location: Easton, MD

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 8:23 pm    Post subject: Distributor shaft not turning anymore! Reply with quote

Hi,

On Sunday I tried to see if I could get the engine to start from my freshly picked up M38. Two new batteries, points, condenser, cleaned spark plugs, checked gap, point setting etc. Unfortunately I only got the starter to turn.
Today I found out that I have an electrical issue that I will need to tackle, BUT as I was double checking the correct firing order I noticed today that the distributor rotor/shaft is no longer turning at all as I turned the engine over by hand. Not at all.
Could I have worn out the shaft with the starter yesterday?

Thanks,

Andy
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wesk
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Posts: 16225
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the distributor seated all the way down on the block? With the distributor cap off, when you turn the rotor does it rotate 360 degrees freely? If you answer yes to both of the above question then you have either sheered the shaft or tab of the distributor, or the shaft or tab of the oil pump, or the oil pump gear is spinning on the oil pump shaft because it's retainer pin sheared or was not peaned at the ends and fell out.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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Andysm38
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Location: Easton, MD

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The distributor is seated all the way down as far as I know and I haven't changed it since Sunday when it was turning.
The rotor does not turn at all. I have not tried to apply gentle force, but at this point it seems stuck. I am able to move it up and down just a tiny, little bit.

Motor turns freely by hand. I hear the fuel pump gurgling and the pistons are moving up and down.
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wesk
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please answer the second question above.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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Andysm38
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I did.
I am not able to turn or rotate the rotor at all.
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wesk
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must be going blind.

Remove the bolt that attaches the distributor base/adjusting plate to the engine block and remove the distributor so you can inspect the shaft. If the distributor won't budge from the block then you will have to soak it where it enters the block with PB Blaster penetrating fluid and repeat each day and check for loosening by trying to rotate the distributor body left-right. Once the body can be rotated left-right you can start trying to pry it upward as well.
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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Andysm38
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Location: Easton, MD

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Wes.
I was afraid that would be the next step.
What is the best way/entrance to get the PB blaster around the shaft?
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wesk
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use the straw that comes with the can and spray where the aluminum housing meets the cast iron block.


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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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Andysm38
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the good news is that I finally did get the distributor out! I guess the not so good news is that I don't see anything wrong with it!

Take a look and let me know your thoughts please!

Thanks!

https://picasaweb.google.com/110605845710348910556/Distributor?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCKaO1cPPsvyWQQ&feat=directlink
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wesk
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You missed a few of my annotations above! Take a close look at the distributor photo I posted above at the bottom. Read that little note about the anti-rattle clip.

As I posted above:
Quote:
Is the distributor seated all the way down on the block?


When that anti-rattle spring falls off the distributor it jams in the top of the oil pump and doesn't allow the distributor to bottom out fully into the block. Sometimes the oil pump drive will catch a small tip of the distributor driven shaft and spin it and sometimes it doesn't and the distributor suddenly doesn't turn anymore. Shine your flashlite down the distributor's hole and look at the top of the oil pump drive shaft. Is that anti-rattle clip stuck there?
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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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Andysm38
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Location: Easton, MD

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wes- sorry! I did miss that or rather forgot about that.

I just checked and did shine my flashlight down the shaft.

What I did see is a shiny metal circle and through the middle of it I saw the slot for the distributor key/tip. (looked like an ignition or any lock for that matter)

The (full) circle was not angulated, but laying flat. Do you think that is the clip or rather just the end of the shaft for the distributor?

Andy
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wesk
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get a long/long needle nose or a strong magnet and see if you can pull the clip out of there.

I'll try to get a better photo up:




Note that it is almost 6 sided but one side is cut out. It is made of spring steel and appears to resemble a nut.


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Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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Andysm38
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. Are you convinced it is the clip?
It is a solid, full, 360 degree circle!
It really looks just like the bottom of the shaft for the distributor to sit in and allow him to not slide any further down.
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Andysm38
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Location: Easton, MD

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I answered my own question: It is just the bottom of the shaft and not the spring clip.

Now I wonder about the following:

1) Do I need to get a spring clip prior to putting the distributor back?
2) How do you correctly line up the distributor with the slot in the oil pump?
3) Is it possible that the distributor didn't turn because the attachment bolt was tight, but not tight enough?

When I get home, I will turn the engine and make sure that the oil pump turns. I will also clean the distributor and the shaft really good. I guess I could use the PB Blaster to do that!?

Thanks,

Andy
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wesk
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only way you are going to get that rust off that distributor shaft is to use a rust remover or a wire wheel.

The purpose of the anti-rattle clip is to eliminate rattle or movement laterally. This prevent excess wear. Leave it out and the damge to either shaft will be expensive in the future.

If you do not have a bench grinder with at least one wire wheel then you should consider purchasing one if you plan on working on these rusty old jeeps. Also get some wire brushes that attach to a drill so you can clean up the block surface and the bore that shaft came out of.

If you were gauging how well the distributor shaft engaged the oil pump shaft by how tight the bolt was you will have issues often with the proper engagement of parts. Get your self an inspection mirror so you can see clearly weather the distributor housing seats firmly and completely against the adjusting plate and the adjusting plate seats firmly and completely against the block.

Once you determine weather or not that oil pump turns with the engine you should use these standard steps to prepare for installing the distributor.

1-Clean, lube and inspect the distributor and then make the necessary adjustments using the proper TM 9-1825B found on our downloads page.

2-Clean, the distributor hold/down plate (adjusting plate) and the bolt threads on both bolts.

3-Wire brush the contact surface of the block and the bore of the distributor mounting area/hole clean.

4-Put a light coat of anti-seize on the lower area of the distributor housing that enters the adjusting/holdown plate and the block.

5-Install the adjusting plate on the distributor but only tighten the bolt finger tight.

6-With the engine top center on compression on #1 cylinder (verified by holding your thumb over # 1 plug hole whilst turning the engine by hand in it's normal rotation direction and then verifying that the Timing marks are very close to TDC) Confirm the oil pump shaft slot is indexed properly per the the illustration:

If it is not then the pump must be removed and re-installed correctly.

7-With the distributor in your right hand and your left fingers grasping the rotor insure the rotor points to the #1 plug wire position


8-Install the distributor slowly. When the tip of the distributor shaft hits the top of the oil pump shaft you may have to rotate the rotor very slightly left right until the slots match and the distributor drops the last 1/4" into position and sits firmly against the block. Confirm the rotor still points to the #1 plug position.

9-Before you forget it install the bolt through the adjusting plate and into the block and tighten it.

10-Now align the 5 degree BTDC (Ign) mark up with the pointer or the center of the timing window for early M38's. This should only necessitate a very slight rotation of the crank about 5 degrees.

Early M38's

Later M38's

If you have the M38A1 timing tab.

11-Now remove the rotor and rotate the distributor housing as far as it will go CCW in the retard direction.

Open the points and insert a small piece of clean paper between the contacts and let the points close.

12-Now very slowly rotate the distributor housing clockwise (towards the advanced direction) while maintain a very light pulling pressure on the piece of paper/ The instant the paper slips out of the contacts stop and while holding the distributor firmly still tighten the adjusting plate bolt under the distributor housing. Your timing is now set at 5 Deg's BTDC. No timing light needed unless you just want to check the accuracy of your setting.
_________________
Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100

Mjeeps photo album: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php?set_albumName=Wes-Knettle&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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