You are correct in your observations. The factory line in that 1951 photo were certainly using canvas. The big "Ta Do" came with the June 1952 intro of the M38A1 where Willys announced the new waterproof seat covers of the M38A1. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Sep 30, 2013 Posts: 70 Location: Glenburn, ME
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:41 pm Post subject:
I thought my M38 seat covers were some type of generic replacements until I picked up a Willys Wagon jumpseat and noticed it was the exact same material. Since then, I've read through every online debate I can find as to whether vinyl was original or not.
This is from my DOD 4/52 M38. It has lived most (possibly all) of its life with a protective Arctic Top. Any idea if these covers are even the right color to be either original or factory replacements? With all the debating I haven't really found any good pics. Are these the covers people are arguing about?
The only available proof in the pudding is in the factory drawings for the seats and until someone like Keith produces the drawings we will not have a definitive answer on the fabric. The M38A1 has the strongest evidence of vinyl seat covers found in the trade publication's announcements of the new contract specs that called for the new, more waterproof, vinyl covers. Again Willys factory drawings would resolve this as well.
There are a few self proclaimed testimonial military guru troops over on the G503 that say they saw all these jeeps new and they had vinyl. Each of those troops I tracked down several years ago were not in the service before 1959 and that made their testimonials nothing but locker room BS for M38's and M38A1's before 59.
As for the very nice looking seat covers you show, I doubt very seriously they are 62 years old even with an arctic top that could have been installed in 1952 or 1962 or 1970 or later when it fell into civvy hands. Arctic tops were installed on jeeps that went way north and removed from jeeps re-assigned further south. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Sep 30, 2013 Posts: 70 Location: Glenburn, ME
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:04 am Post subject:
Thanks for the insight Wes. I did read through all 11 pages of the epic debate over on the G and I suppose it still remains a mystery. Original or not, I have a better feeling that these may have been reupholstered with some type of factory covers (replacement or otherwise), not just with a remnant of Bubba's vinyl 20 years ago.
It's a bad pic but here's the Willys Wagon seat I picked up a few months ago and have since sold. Upholstery material was the exact same.
Those vinyl (or as often called "leatherette") covers were replacement covers sold by Willys for many years. They did come from Willys on the CJ2A, 3A, 3B and 5/6 and the there is reliable evidence they did. Some outfits would spend the money and order replacements from Willys and some would not spend the money and have their own fab shops fabricate canvas replacements. For example I was in from 66 to 89. If I needed a new seat cover in my 1968 Chevy GI service van in 1971 I was directed to remove the seat and take it to the fab shop and they would recover it with their bulk material. This was because units had budgets and keeping a 68 Chev Van or a 59 Willys M38A1 pretty and stock with original factory seat covers was not considered sound fiscal management.
Until someone pops up with the Willys factory drawings with seat covering material specs you are safe to use either canvas or vinyl. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Sep 30, 2013 Posts: 70 Location: Glenburn, ME
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:25 am Post subject:
wesk wrote:
Until someone pops up with the Willys factory drawings with seat covering material specs you are safe to use either canvas or vinyl.
My current project is hardly a "restoration" so I could probably reupholster with a burlap sack and it would blend right in. With that said, I'm still very interested in learning the way things SHOULD be. I find these minor production details very fascinating. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
Those manual photos are canvas. The cushion covers in those photos were sewn at their seams inside out then reversed for installation. Much different then the vinyl covers which have folded and sewn outside seams. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
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