M38 Rear View Mirror Pivot Clamp

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:19 pm

I took my rear view mirror pivot clamp apart (incident to replacing the busted <field repair> lower extension arm shown in the photo) ----- and I find a spacer inside the clamp.

The pivot clamp is on page 331 of the September 1955 ORD9 but I believe the spacer is WO-118148 on page 334 of the ORD9. The nut, bolt, and fiber washers for the clamp are listed under it on page 331 but for some reason the spacer is listed by itself on page 334.

I believe my clamp is original M38 but have no way to be certain of that. Of course I could be mistaken. I discovered that this spacer is made out of fiber material ---- but the ORD9 says it's supposed to be steel. The dimensions are correct, just different material. Typo?

I managed to squeeze it out of the clamp without breaking it, but I bet at its age it's pretty brittle.

Trying to answer the fiber or steel question I looked in the early 1951 M38 ORD9 and it's the same as the 1955 ORD9 (no clue). The M38A1 ORD9 uses the same. I also looked in the MB-GPW ORD9 but couldn't find a listing for it at all, but could've missed it as I'm not familiar so much with the MB-GPW ORD9. Can't find a detail photo anywhere that shows the assembly. Searched the forum and the M38 Reference Guide with no joy.

Has anybody ever seen this before? As always, your assistance is appreciated!

Spacer inside the pivot clamp:

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:38 pm

I went ahead and fabricated a steel spacer assuming that the ORD9's are correct that it's supposed to be steel, and also to preserve the fiber spacer I found installed, just in case it's noteworthy in M38 history (bagged and tagged it). Still no joy researching this, and haven't seen one (fiber or steel) advertised or available anywhere.

The fabricated spacer is actually two spacers, a spacer inside a spacer (3/8 ID inside a 7/16 ID) found in the Hillman bins at the local Ace Hardware Store for a couple of bucks. Trimmed to the ORD9 length with a tubing cutter. The dimensions are very close to the ORD9 dimensions, and it went in with a very slight interference press fit.

Next post will be about fiber washers, and their placement....

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:25 pm

Nobody had one of these apart before?

Post by **wesk** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:50 am

I've had many apart before. Give us a little more info. A detailed close up photo of the entire mirror assembly would be nice. There is no known evidence the M38 used more than one type mirror from Willys. There were several pivot clamp changes. One will often find the later M151 arm adapted to their M38.

I condensed the mirror parts only from the mix of accessories in the ORD 9 so it is easier to see what is what.

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:15 pm

Wes,
My question is only about the spacer inside the pivot clamp (WO-118148 on page 334 of the ORD9), whether it's fiber or steel?

When you took many apart, what kind of spacer did you find?

Post by **wesk** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:46 pm

And my question was to find out exactly which pivot clamp and arm assembly you have. Of course if you refuse to answer you leave me no choices.

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:07 pm

Wes,
I already posted photos of the pivot clamp, including the (busted) arm that has since been replaced. I also said I don't know if my mirror assembly is original M38 or not. I know the mirror itself isn't.

My question has to do with page 334 of the ORD9 and the WO-118148 Pivot Clamp SPACER. The ORD9 says this SPACER is made of steel, but I found one made of fiber. I'm simply trying to find out if the ORD9 is correct with a STEEL spacer, or if it might be a typo and should be FIBER.

Because I've searched high and low with no joy, I thought I'd ask the experience of the forum if anybody else has seen this SPACER, and if yes, what material is it made from.

I'll take and post a photo of my entire mirror assembly for you this evening, but I'm not seeing what good it'll do for my question because except for my pivot clamp which I think is original M38, the other replacement parts aren't original M38, they're repops. I haven't found any good take-offs or NOS parts.

You're the first to respond to my question, and said that you've taken many apart. All I'm asking is if you can share with me what they had for SPACERS --- were they made with STEEL or FIBER?

Yes, the ORD9's list several pivot clamps, but only one spacer. And the description of the spacer doesn't say which pivot clamp it goes with, so I assume it fits and is used on all pivot clamps. Could be wrong, but see no apparent way to prove it.

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:31 pm

Ok Wes,
Photos as requested. The only pieces that I believe are original M38 are the pivot clamp (and spacer), the two pivot clamp brackets to the body, and the locking collar with set-screw on the extension arm. All else has been replaced by me with repop parts and new fasteners.

I put the fiber washers (2 red and 2 gray) where I found crumbs of the last ones. Everything moves smoothly.

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:13 pm

Anyway, back to my original question: has anybody ever seen a Spacer WO-118148 (page 334 of the ORD9) inside the pivot clamp before? Was it made of fiber or steel?

As always, your assistance is appreciated!

Post by **wesk** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:53 am

The mirror head & arms are very good repops.

All that I have fooled with had steel spacers and fiber washers. In your case it is safe to assume that a prior owner did exactly what you did and installed his own fabricated spacer.

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:18 pm

Thanks Wes. Steel spacer it is.

Nice to have a full-length mirror arm. I especially liked this repop arm because it's reinforced at each end where the mounting bracket and mirror mounting holes are drilled. The tubes are thick-walled tubing, but they also have a short section of smaller diameter tube inserted to the ends before they were formed-stamped......double-thickness at each end mounting hole.

This arm came with a funky clamping collar that has a metric threaded set-screw so I put it aside and used what I believe is the original M38 clamping collar and set-screw.

The mirror head was on the jeep when I bought it. Correct 5-inch size but obviously not M38. It had a convex mirror in it until I accidentally busted it. Made me think it came from a front fender mount on an 18-wheeler. The local glass shop put a regular flat mirror in it for me. Never seen another like it. Guess I'll keep it.

Kind of surprised my camera could capture this look down the tube to see the reinforcement. Gotta give them a shot of primer for corrosion control....

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:06 pm

Surprising that fiber washers weren't hard to find.

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:21 pm

Still kind of amazing that in a forum with 5,793 members, only Wes has seen a steel spacer in the mirror pivot clamp......

Sometimes I wonder if it's just me and Wes (and a handful of others) out there in the interweb............

Why did you join this forum?

See some (2 year old) statistics here: http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php? ... highlight=

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:00 am

Maybe no one else has taken theirs apart!!

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:02 am

Maybe no one else has taken theirs apart!!