Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:01 pm Post subject: what type of oil do you use
The owner of the engine rebuild shop that did my engine recommended I use HD30 wt oil.
And that is what I used along with a quart of Resilone
when I started it up and ran it at idle for a while.
He said a multi grade oil wasn't necessary for our climate, and also I didn't need to use Resilone additive.
I will follow his recomendations of coarse.
I was curious about what you guys have done when starting out with a new or rebuilt engine on which oil you used. A Non-detergent or detergent oil? _________________ Tropical Veteran
35th Inf. Reg. "CACTI" 4th I.D. VN
Amateur Radio K5XOM
What I've always heard as the traditional wisdom, is that you should not start using detergent oil in an older motor that never had it - the idea being that it will loosen too much of the old deposits accumulated from years of non-detergent use.
By this theory there would conversely be no reason to use non-detergent in a clean new engine. Detergent oils would keep it clean from the start.
However, this is all anecdotal. I'd like to know from an expert, if it's really true that detergent oils can cause trouble in older engines.
I think that everyone has preferences on what oil to use based on personal and friends experiences. The first M38 I had the engine was totally rebuilt internally with the only the crankshaft and rods not being replaced. From the first startup I used 15-50 JT8 moter oil. (yes I know; its considered desiel engine lubercant). That engine was rebuilt in 1979 and until I sold it in 1999 never had a bit of problems with it and no oil usage.
I lived in western Oklahome at the time and with the temperture extremes between summer and winter the 15-50 worked great. I changed the oil twice a year...march and september and several times a year I would get together with others with jeeps and get out off-road and sometimes really put some stress on the engine and drive train. I intend to stay with the detergent oil when I get my current project running and will probably up the lower end of the multi-viscosity oil to at least 20-50. It doesnt ever get that cold here in Savannah but it does heat up in the summer. With the low gearing that our vehicles have and the engine rpm required to maintain a resonable speed on the pavement I wouldnt use anything lower than a 40 wt oil and perfer 50. I think you need as much engine protection as you can get; espically in the heat of the summer.
Well since we've opened the floor to opinions here is mine.
The oil visocities listed in the manual are meant for this specific engine used in it's designed way with the appropriate weight variations based on the season's mean temperature. Weights heavier than specified on stock engines can in some cases on cold starts not move quick enough thru the tight clearances to get to all moving parts of the engine in time to prevent damage or unneccesary wear. In extreme cases the heavier oil weights have been known to shear oil pump and distributor drives. I have spent 50 years around piston and jet engines. Aircraft engines which commonly run straight 50 weight or 20W50 oil in the summer when cold (below 40 degrees) that 50 weigfht oil is like molassas. I advise you to operate your L & F 134's with the manufacturer's recommended weights.
Diesel engines, gas auto engine and gas aircraft engines all have different oil needs based on the environment created by their speicifc operation. Folks with over 100 years of experience and thousands of college degrees have sorted all that out and we should just follow the manufacturer's guidelines. If you won't accept whats already written on the subject try visiting with several large volume engine rebuilders and fleet vehicle operators. The engine builders will recommend what keeps them out of warranty claims from you and fleet operators will know what makes their fleet run best.
When breaking in a fresh set of rings in a freshly honed cylinder you need a mineral oil. Theres no other way to guarantee quick and full seating of the rings. The rings must experience a rapid initial wear to seat. The semi-synthetics won't let this needed wear occur. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
I don't intend to run this thread in the ground. But I do like to do things right,
So, Wes let me ask you this question about the breaking in part.
If I haven't run the engine more than 30 minutes total when I started it the two different times at an idle with a few short excelerations of the throttle using HD30 wt, I haven't really broke it in or seated the rings yet have I?
(I have since drained that oil out because I had to take the engine back to get the rear seal redone).
If I haven't yet broken it in properly, should go ahead and pour in a non detergent oil which says on the label that it is a good straight mineral lubricant for older cars and trucks which are operated under moderate conitions. It is a pure petroleum based oil with no additives. Rated API, SA
Break the engine in like it is supposed to be when driven under normal load and after 500 miles then drain it and put in the recommended Weight of oil with additives. In my case here HD30wt. _________________ Tropical Veteran
35th Inf. Reg. "CACTI" 4th I.D. VN
Amateur Radio K5XOM
Joined: Apr 03, 2005 Posts: 271 Location: Chester County, PA
Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:21 pm Post subject:
I'm not as knowledgeable as Wes on this subject, but I don't think you have anything to worry about.
The first few hours of an engines life are probably its most critical though. So I wouldnt do much else without putting some mineral in it. In order for an engine to be broken in effectively as well, the engine has to do work. Letting it idle with mineral aint gonna do squat. Youre going to need to drive it around, let it go up some hills, and just in general, pull its own weight. Idling just as it is sitting there isn't going to do much. _________________ Bob Collins
1954 M38A1 MD79056
I don't intend to run this thread in the ground. But I do like to do things right,
It isn't over till the fat lady sings. Ken, It's your thread and you are entitled to drive it as far as you need to for the answers you need.
So, Wes let me ask you this question about the breaking in part.
If I haven't run the engine more than 30 minutes total when I started it the two different times at an idle with a few short excelerations of the throttle using HD30 wt, I haven't really broke it in or seated the rings yet have I?
You are correct.
(I have since drained that oil out because I had to take the engine back to get the rear seal redone).
If I haven't yet broken it in properly, should go ahead and pour in a non detergent oil which says on the label that it is a good straight mineral lubricant for older cars and trucks which are operated under moderate conitions. It is a pure petroleum based oil with no additives. Rated API, SA
You are correct.
Break the engine in like it is supposed to be when driven under normal load and after 500 miles then drain it and put in the recommended Weight of oil with additives. In my case here HD30wt.
As for a breakin schedule hows the owner's manual for a good reference?
From TM 9-8012:
"9. Break-In
a. General. Refer to paragraphs 42 through 53 for operating instructions. After a preliminary service has been performed (par. , the break-in period (500 miles) may be accomplished in normal service of the vehicle under the supervision of a competent driver. The driver will not use excessive speeds, skip speeds in shifting gears, use rapid acceleration, or in any wayload the engine or power train to capacity during the break-in period. "
"CJ2A Operation and Care
Manual -- Inspections and Precautions
At assembly a restrictor is placed between the intake manifold and the carburetor to limit the road speed to approximately 42 mph. To protect the vehicle, leave the restrictor in position for the first 500 miles of road operation, or equivalent in industrial operation, after which remove and discard it.
It is an obligation of the Selling Dealer to carefully inspect and adjust your Universal Jeep before delivery. After your vehicle has been operated 1000 miles, return it to your dealer for the 1000 Mile Inspection in accordance with Factory Form, Ser. 3455. This inspection is free with the exception of engine oil and anti-freeze solution used.
1000 Mile Free Inspection
Check steering system and front wheel alignment.
Check spring clip nuts and spring shackles.
Check rear axle for oil and leaks.
Adjust body bolts.
Test service and hand brakes -- inflate tires.
Check cooling system for leaks and anti-freeze and fan belt adjustment.
Adjust clutch pedal.
Check operation of transmission and transfer case -- Check for oil level and leaks.
Check battery, generator output, headlamps and horn.
Tighten universal joint companion flange bolts.
Check operation of ammeter, heat indicator, fuel and oil gauges.
Tighten cylinder head nuts -- Check timing and distributor points.
Set spark plugs -- Adjust carburetor -- Check throttle controls.
Check engine for oil leaks -- Check fuel line connections.
Adjust valve tappets, if required.
Change engine oil (charge for oil) -- Lubricate vehicle.
Clean and refill air cleaner.
Clean fuel pump sump and strainer.
Check extra equipment attaching screws -- Check for oil level and leaks.
FILL IN FOR YOUR REFERENCE
Vehicle Serial Number ____________________
Engine Serial Number ____________________
Purchase Date __________________________
Ignition Key Number _____________________
WILLYS-OVERLAND MOTORS, INC.
Proper Operation
DRIVING A NEW "JEEP"
Do not run your "Universal Jeep" faster than 40 miles an hour for the first 500 miles or if used on the farm or for industrial operation, use care when pulling heavy loads in the lower gear ratios. If the vehicle is operated at high speeds while new or used for heavy pulling for a long period, the closely fitted parts might possibly become overheated, resulting in scored pistons, cylinders or burned bearings. During its entire life, never race the engine while making adjustments or when the vehicle is standing idle. It the vehicle is not properly lubricated, our Warranty is null and void. Be sure to have your Willys-Overland Dealer inspect your vehicle at the end of 1000 miles or equivalent usage and every 2500 miles thereafter.
SPECIAL PRECAUTIONS
There are several points of difference between the Universal Jeep and a conventional vehicle to receive attention. As a general precaution and for your information we are listing these "cautions" below:
The Jeep is equipped with a transfer case and four-wheel drive to provide additional traction and a lower gear ratio for use on difficult terrain. Use the front wheel drive only when necessary. Consider the front wheel drive and the transfer case as a lower gear ratio than the standard transmission low gear and use it only when greater power is required.
The use of four-wheel drive on hard surfaced highways will result in rapid tire wear and hard shifting of the transfer case, particularly when the front wheels are steered even at a slight angle from the straight ahead position. If hard shifting occurs, disengage the clutch, start engine, shift transmission into reverse gear, back the vehicle a few feet, and disengage clutch. If transfer case is in low range, shift into high then shift front axle into "out" position (lever forward).
Two drain cocks are provided to drain the cooling system. A drain cock is located under the left side of the radiator, however, it is necessary to drain the cylinder block separately. The cylinder block drain is located at the right front corner of the block directly under the generator. Loosen the radiator cap to break the seal and permit complete draining.
Check the level of the lubricant often in the transmission and transfer case. Be sure the lubricant is at filler level in both units at all times.
As a standard, the clutch pedal is adjusted with 1" free travel. As the clutch wears this becomes less. Be sure that there is free travel at all times to prevent continuous operation of the clutch release bearing and rapid wear and slippage of the clutch. This adjustment is made by lengthening or shortening the clutch control cable.
The ventilator valve, mounted in the intake manifold, must be free to operate. If it is stuck open very uneven engine operation at low speed will result.
Be sure the exhaust manifold heat control valve is free at all times and the thermostatic control spring is above the stop.
Six screws are used to attach the front wheel brake backing plate and spindle to the spindle housing. These screws are standard in dimensions and thread pitch, however, they are made of special steel and receive special heat treatment. Safety demands that only genuine factory screws be used at this point. " _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
, the break-in period (500 miles) may be accomplished in normal service of the vehicle under the supervision of a competent driver. The driver will not use excessive speeds, skip speeds in shifting gears, use rapid acceleration, or in any wayload the engine or power train to capacity during the break-in period. "
