Joined: Jan 31, 2017 Posts: 72 Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:28 am Post subject: 1952 M38 Rebuild/Restore project
Alright guys, I finally got my M38 parked in my garage and ready to start having some fun! Overall, when I picked it up and looked it over for the first time, I was super thrilled about some aspects and really bummed about others. Still totally think this is going to be a worthwhile and fun project, just a little more involved than I was originally anticipating.
I'll be posting a bunch of photos as it sits now as well as my list of problems I can see that need to be fixed. I could use all the help I can get about how to best fix the problems and if you guys notice anything that I may have missed. If some more photos could help out, let me know and I'll snap some more!
Last edited by jsnwalker on Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:34 pm; edited 3 times in total
Joined: Aug 31, 2010 Posts: 1741 Location: SO IDAHO
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:48 am Post subject:
Welcome to the disease Jason. You've got a great start there, a lot there to work with. What are your plans? Back to Mil Spec? _________________ keep 'em rollin'
RICKG MC 51986 DOD 01-52, '50 CJ3a
Joined: Jan 31, 2017 Posts: 72 Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:14 pm Post subject:
Now for the obvious problems....
1. The jep leans bad to the front left. I need to re-arch the leaf springs for sure.
2 - Both the seats (and I'm assuming the seat brackets) are from a tractor. Need to replace everything to get the proper seating position back. Right now you sit too high.
3 - The steering wheel is absolutely the wrong wheel and I don't know yet if the column is different. When sitting in the current seat, your knees are just about hitting the steering wheel. I know that the original steering wheel is a larger diameter so there is no way it fit right now. Don't know if that is based solely on the seat being in the wrong position or if the steering column was changed so the angles and such are different.
4 - I know that the gas tank was replaced since it is a plastic tank but the fuel lines/filters were replaced as well. There is now an electronic fuel pump/in-line filter (shown in two photos above). Seems to work well, it just seems stupid to have that inline filter sitting out in the open. Would like to rework/rerun everything to keep it hidden more like the original lines.
5 - I have the handbrake lever still in the dash but it doesn't work. I have no idea on how to go about fixing this (I assume I need some hardware and the cables) but I'm thinking it is meant to be connected to the arm in the following picture?
6 - I pulled the fenders off to open up the engine bay and turns out the front grill isn't connected to anything but the fenders. I believe there are mounting holes in the lower corners of the grill that are meant to secure it to something but I have no idea what. Any ideas?
7 - I have driven this jep a couple of times but the last time (moving it from my garage, down our sloped driveway to a spot outside) I had a bunch of antifreeze spill out that I never noticed before. The drips were coming from the hose in the following picture. I'm sure this is a dumb question, but is that supposed to be connected to something?
8 - There is a random white wire coming off something on the left side of the motor. I don't remember seeing that connected to any of the fender bolts I removed when pulling the fenders and the jeep still started and drove. Need to figure out what that is and what to do with the wire...
9 - The whole throttle body and the way it works seems to be completely homemade. While it gets the job done, it seems super weak and will break any moment. Would like to get that replaced back to original.
10 - On the right side of the motor, there is a piece that has two metal lines coming off that are attached to nothing. I have no idea what it is or why it is completely disconnected.
11 - The drips! I'm dripping two different types of fluid as far as I can tell. One is a dark color like dirty oil and the other is a lighter color. Maybe transmission fluid? Don't know what types of fluid these M38's use but that is all I can think of.
12 - Need to replace the brake master cylinder. The brake pedal doesn't come back fully after released from braking.
13 - The steering pump/box seems to have been ripped out and repaired quite poorly. Don't know what caused this exactly but I'm hoping to be able to cut away the 'repair work' and have it patched up correctly.
14 - Need to get the rest of the gauges and install them correctly.
And I believe that is the majority of the major problems. I know I have missed a ton of stuff so anything you guys may have noticed or think there is something I didn't check, i would love to hear about it. I just hope this doesn't turn out to be a poor purchase on my end!
Last edited by jsnwalker on Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:53 pm; edited 4 times in total
Joined: Jan 31, 2017 Posts: 72 Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:18 pm Post subject:
Thanks Rick, I feel I have had this disease for a while (built up quite a few new models of Jep (TJ, JK, JKU, etc.)), just nothing that is this old. I can certainly say that I am getting more excited about this project than I ever did about my JKU! Even sold it and suffered my wife's wrath to get ready for this project!
For the overall plans, I have no idea yet.... I'm counting on getting it back up and running regardless as a around town driver. I was thinking about going back to all original but I'm starting to think that some of the 'repairs' and such down prior might make that a challenge. Looking forward to just rolling with the punches and seeing where this project goes.
Joined: Aug 31, 2010 Posts: 1741 Location: SO IDAHO
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:40 pm Post subject:
Let me reply to your questions/concerns (numbered per your list).
1. most do lean left due to the weight distribution (we call it "lefty lean")
2. before you chuck the homemade sat frames be advised originals are hard to find.
3. the stock ross steering has been replaced.
4. stock M38 tanks are unobtainium..
5. yup that's the parking brake linkage.
6.the grille is hinged, the top half of the hinges are missing.
7.rad overflow tube, check your cap.
8.???
9. not stock carb linkage, is the bracket still on the upper left rear of block?
10. civvy mech fuel pump has been disconnected, must be inline electric.
11. they all leak, when they stop you're out of oil.
12. brake parts are readily available.
13. Saginaw conversion, stock ross replaced.
14. correct gage config fotos available in downloads.
The best advice I can give is this: go to the downloads section of this forum and print/study all the free manuals available. A wealth of info... _________________ keep 'em rollin'
RICKG MC 51986 DOD 01-52, '50 CJ3a
Joined: Feb 09, 2014 Posts: 178 Location: Tri Cities, Washington
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:43 pm Post subject:
Mine leans, but I thought it was a bent axle tube. I was going to have it checked or straightened. but when I put a straight edge on it looked straight. I guess that would explain it. _________________ Rusty, 1952 M38, Koenig hard top.
I usually suggest that each new member open a photo album right here on our web site. I can do that for you. Then you load your photos to your album and link them to your post in the appropriate file size. Since I have already reserved your album here these are the links for you:
Please enjoy our web site and best of luck with your project. _________________ Wes K
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 66 M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D, 47Bantam T3-C & 5? M100
Joined: Jan 31, 2017 Posts: 72 Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:06 pm Post subject:
Thanks for the help Rick. I have a few manuals being shipped to me (I like to have books) but will go through the online manuals as well. To clarify a few points you made though:
2 - I assume that they make replica-style seats and frames? While my set up works, my eyes are dead level with the top of the windshield frame so I have to drive curled up or stretching my neck to see over the windshield. I would also love to get rid of the small steering wheel for something more original.
3 - What exactly is 'the stock ross steering'? Is that just the wheel or the entire steering column or something else?
7 - I assumed it was the overflow tube but I never touched/bumped the radiator as far as I can remember. Do M38 radiator caps have a habit of needing adjustment or could there be something else going on?
8 - Any idea what that piece is?
9 - I'll take a photo of the motor, specifically the upper left rear of the block when it is done raining. However, you sure it would be the left side? The throttle body and carb are sitting on the right side (driver side) of the motor currently.
10 - Correct, there is an electric fuel pump.
13 - I assume from question 3 that the 'stock ross steering' is the entire steering setup? Meaning that you believe that the entire steering setup has been replaced by a saginaw conversion?
Joined: Aug 31, 2010 Posts: 1741 Location: SO IDAHO
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:37 pm Post subject:
2-I don't believe "they" make replica seat frames, If "they" do it will hurt $$.
3/13-the orig steering was by Ross Mfg, yours has been swapped out for a common Saginaw conversion. Happens all the time.
8-the 24V Genny system has been swapped for a 12V alt system. I know not where the loose wire goes.
7-the rad cap should rate 4psi.
9.-view the vehicle as from the driver's seat, the carb is on the left. _________________ keep 'em rollin'
RICKG MC 51986 DOD 01-52, '50 CJ3a
Most Delco one wire alternators use the white wire for the alternator warning light. No warning light it is then left dead ended.
The original stock Ross steering gear box bolted to the frame rail just below the firewall. Saginaw conversions are done just as yours is. An add-on plate welded inside the left frame rail ahead of the grill.
This is the original Ross steering gear box location.
Joined: May 14, 2009 Posts: 971 Location: South Dakota
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:01 am Post subject:
Jason, I suggest you buy Ryan Millers book on M38's. It's filled with pictures of what is correct and original to a M38. It's shown here on the home page. This will not only answer your questions, but show you pictures. Buy the M38 TM (technical Manual) that covers the instructions on how to work on the components. A CJ manual for Willys Jeeps is a big help too since the components are almost the same. Someone has replaced almost all of the original military stuff common to a M38. Saginaw steering box. Steering column, all the 24 volt electrical stuff, seats, brackets, fuel, wow. They didn't miss removing much. Buying all this one part at a time will cost you more than buying a parts Jeep that has the stuff. You may need to sit down and decide what your ultimate goal is. You might look at buying a Jeep with all the military stuff but no engine transmission and build one out of the two. Depends what you want. Just the correct wiring harness for a 24 volt M38 is $750.00. Fuel tank, 400.00 plus. Air cleaner 100.00 -200.00. See what I mean? We all will help you with info. and welcome to the disease! John
Joined: Jan 31, 2017 Posts: 72 Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:59 am Post subject:
Thanks for the advice John. I bought this jep almost solely for the experience of working on something this old, to start learning how these things were built and what makes them run. I was on the fence about taking this back to milspec before I saw it for the first time, but with me running into more and more things that have been changed as you just said, I'm thinking that this is going to be down and dirty project to get it back up and running without taking it back to milspec.
I actually just received my M38 TM manual this morning and can already tell that this will help a lot. I'll place an order for the other books you mentioned. Despite all the reading and sweet pictures, I do learn best by asking a question and listening to different peoples inputs on the matter in addition to researching it myself. Needless to say, I'm going to be spending a lot of time on this forum looking up old threads and asking a ton of questions.
Either way, I'm looking forward to the experience and the knowledge to come!
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