Bearing Retainer Juice

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:41 am

Does anybody have any experience using this on wheel or kingpin bearing cups and cones?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riTo3zwyIaU

Post by **wesk** » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:32 am

I do not see the value of Loctite retaining glue on serviceable applications. It may have some value where you are experiencing spinning of the bearing cone due to excessive wear issues but in that case the wise route is replacement of the worn component.

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:09 pm

Thanks Wes.

The inner wheel bearing cup (race) on my passenger side front hub has a brass shim installed around about a third or half its circumference. I haven't finished measuring to see if it's concentric to the bore but it looks well done, and neither the bearing cone or cup shows any unusual wear.

I found some research that indicates a shim like this isn't a drastic but perhaps an acceptable repair. But I'm a rookie and don't know any better one way or another. Then I came across the Loctite bearing retainer products, different grades for different clearances. This stuff apparently been around since the early 1960's. I've never seen or heard of it before yesterday.

Not trying to go on the cheap with my truck, but hubs go for $60+. If I need to replace it because this is a questionable repair I will.

Regards,

rgmutchler · Post by **rgmutchler** » Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:19 pm

Ron, just a question to clarify. I watched the video and came away with the impression that you have a bearing that has spun and you are looking for this loc tite to secure it??

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:49 pm

Hey RG,
As far as I can tell, nothing has spun that's not supposed to spin.

I have a shimmed-in-place outer race (cup) on the inner wheel bearing of my right front hub (M38).

I discovered it during tear-down to service the knuckle and brakes.

The video doesn't illustrate my problem, just the product. Although from what I read, it can apparently also be used to secure outer cups in place too.

rgmutchler · Post by **rgmutchler** » Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:28 pm

Thanks Ron

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:31 pm

That video makes me wonder....the clean bearing gets loctited with bearing retainer juice to the clean shaft.......after that how does it get packed with grease before assembly? Maybe I'm missing something.....but it must be messy.

I noted that my wheel bearing (inner race of the cone) will spin by hand on the spindle. Not sloppy, but it'll spin. Doesn't mean it's spinning when going down the road --- or does it? Can't find any go/no-go dimensions for the spindle and bearing surface tolerance in the manuals. No doubt my spindles are worn, but are they bad? When I assembled the driver side according to the TM I get no perceptible play and everything spins nice. Everything I read says the inner and outer bearings come off the spindle by hand for servicing (no puller needed), and mine do that.

These may be stoopid questions and lately I cringe even asking them. I'm not a school trained auto mechanic, I'm a rookie who relies on experienced opinion --- when I can get it.....and would rather not replace parts that don't need to be replaced. I'm not trying to build a brand new truck as it came off the assembly line, just one with a good measure of safety and reliability using the parts it came with.

Given the choice of the cost and questionable quality of aftermarket parts, or the cost and rarity of NOS if they can be found, or the roll-the-dice-and-take-a-chance nature of buying take-offs, I'd rather not go there without some certainty that it's necessary. As much as I love this hobby, I don't own a money tree.....

As always, thanks for your help!

Post by **wesk** » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:00 pm

Unlike the old straight ball bearings used in the 1920's these wheels use a tapered roller bearing and cup. The taper thru proper adjustment preloads these bearings. This preload will keep a properly fitted cup and cone from spinning on the hub or shaft. Once the hub or shaft displays evidence of a spun cup or cone then the only answer is new components. You can talk yourself into playing with gooey fix-it-all pastes to save a dime but remember that at 45 MPH or a wheel rotational speed in excess of several thousand RPMs a spinning cone or cup will overheat in seconds and seize. The damage you will have at that point will bring tears to your eyes and your wallet! You have cried out for the voice of experience and that voice has spoken, but now the chip is on your shoulder. Choose wisely.

Note: If you still cannot positively ID conditions of your parts due to that lack of experience I would suggest bringing your suspect parts to the eyes of experience or bring the eyes of experience to your suspect parts!

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:02 am

Always good advice. Thanks Wes!

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:41 pm

Trusted second opinion laid eyeballs on them for me and said replace them.

It looks like finding a new pair of hubs and spindles is easier said than done. I sense another challenging lesson in patience coming my way.

Might maybe get lucky, but so far NOS appear to be rare to none, Have to make some phone calls after the holiday to be sure.

I'd sure rather not hear that Crown-Omix is the only game in town? They advertise a "limited 5-year warranty" on these parts but I can't find good or bad words said about them (hubs and spindles) anywhere --- big red flag. No reviews anywhere. Everyone but me already knows they're junk? Is anybody out there actually using them?

rgmutchler · Post by **rgmutchler** » Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:38 am

Ron I would bet that Mullens or some of the others might have some take offs. Merry Christmas

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:21 am

Hi RG,
I'm kind of hoping our venerable vendors have some NOS tucked away. Probably pricey but worth the quality.

I suppose I'd spend for take-offs, but only with some assurance they aren't rode hard and put away wet like the take-offs I'm about to have. Asking for a four decimal place measurement before selling something might be a bridge too far for some. I found a spec dimension for a new spindle --- supposed to be between 1.6243" and 1.6248" where the inner and outer bearings ride. The ID on a new Timken 18590 cone is supposed to be 1.6250".

A few phone calls after New Years' will tell. It's either that or it looks like I might have to knurl what I have and use that goofy magic juice that Wes likes (not) so much. At least until something better turns up. Patience!

I'd sure like to hear some opinions about the Crown-Omix pieces...

Merry Christmas!

jnissen · Post by **jnissen** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:34 am

Ron, Happy new year! Any luck finding a new hub? We had one that was worn to the point that the outer seal would not stay without shims or your magic glue. Elected to go with a take-off part. Was in very good condition and we replaced all bearing cups and seals.

How did your search go?

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:14 pm

I haven't made any phone calls yet.

Thought I'd wait until next week when everybody is back in the saddle after the holidays.

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:46 pm

Received a very nice pair of take-off front spindles from MWM. They both measure within spec and the bearings sit a lot firmer than what I had.